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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hellcow" data-source="post: 4122665" data-attributes="member: 15800">Hey, check my posts again. I'm not promising any of that's there. I'm the one saying that 4E is KotOR, not SWG. I'm saying that it takes the hero's journey and does it really well. But in some ways I think you might look at it as an evolution of 2E that uses some of the same principles as 3E, as opposed to an evolution of 3E. Again, it's not GURPS or Hero, both of which have the strength of letting you model virtually anything. 4E goes back to that core - that idea of the adventuring party built around fighter-rogue-cleric-magic user - and runs with it (though your party could be paladin-ranger-warlord-wizard). I haven't had any trouble telling the stories I want, and one of the big things I do feel is that people ahven't had an opportunity to see the depth of NONCOMBAT play (which I feel is stronger than 3E). But if I want to tell a story that doesn't fit the traditional class roles at all? If I want to run a campaign about a traveling circus troupe? I'm more likely to use Hero to do it. (With that said, you could certainly make a strong man a fighter, a juggler/acrobat a rogue, have a hedge wizard doing prestidigitation for the kids, and have a retired warlord as the ringleader, using his inspirational skills to hold the troupe together - but each one would certainly have more firepower on hand than you might expect from a group of 3E experts.) I'm not promising that 4E will be all things to all people. My point is that I think it's a stronger system for not trying to do so. It's chosen a direction and wrapped the mechanics around it; meanwhile there are many other systems that work well for stories you CAN'T tell in it. Aside from D&D and Champions, the main game I've played over the last few years is Over The Edge, and one of the things I love about OTE is that it's a setting where the typical hero is more likely to be an android cocktail waitress or a recently divorced exterminator than a sacred champion of the Silver Flame. And when I want to tell a story about an android cocktail waitress and recently divorced exterminator (they fight crime, in case you're wondering), I'll do it in OTE; I don't feel cheated because 4E isn't designed to support it. 4E provides many options to make characters unique, but it still holds to those core roles. It won't be for everyone - but for those who don't like it, there's 3E, Hero, GURPS, Traveler, OTE, and on and on. For me 4E does a great job at what I've always wanted from D&D - but your mileage will certainly vary.</blockquote>

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