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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Henry" data-source="post: 4124211" data-attributes="member: 158">As a guess, I'm thinking he means more that they're not very good at it. And if you compare a rapier-wielding fighter in the core 3.5 rules, it's true. It takes a good bit of splat-bookery to make a swashbuckler comparable to even your stock core-rule Zweihander with power attack and Cleave. And to some people, that's as it should be, for purposes of plausibility.Diviner Wizard? Actually, that one's a good example of a dual-role character. He's still got plenty of "oomph" in addition to his divination spells.Diplo-Rogue? Well, since a rogue takes a good four or five skills to be what's considered "thievish" (hide, silent, open lock, sleight of hand, search), the one who's maxxed for crafting, or tracking, or deciphering ancient scripts in moldy tombs, actually doesn't have enough room to do both, short of a 16 INT. I can kind of see the point on this one, though he's not in nearly as bad a shape as, say, the rapier-fighter, as he can let one or two things lapse, but the rapier-fighter NEEDS to be good on damage-per-round average output, or he's nowhere near fulfilling his role.The Bard, however, I really can't buy into people's arguments about uselessness, even with core rules only. The bards I have played are excellent at boosting attacks and damage, creature control (between the musical suggestions, the charm persons, and the bluff and the diplomacy skills, the bard can effectively TAKE AWAY the opposition forces, and use them against said opposition!) and on top of those, still fill out the "linguist and ancient scholar" roles. The bard is one of those I never had as much problem with as some other people throughout the years; the only time bards have problems is in a "nothing but total meatgrinder" dungeons, but even then most characters except fighters and clerics will have problems in that kind of environment.P.S. You asked about my "sales viability" comment yesterday: I was remarking on the argument that some people have that too much information released before a product is finalized can cause harm to their sales, especially where rules that aren't finished yet are concerned. "Paladins can mark things and then run away! This Game Sucks! I'm never buying it!"</blockquote>

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