Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hamburger Mary" data-source="post: 4125469" data-attributes="member: 17363">But that's exactly the problem, Nutluck. A good DM does this. But what if she's NOT a good DM? What if she's never run a game before, and has just picked up an RPG for the first time in her life? What if she's running a published adventure? If I'm creating a social challenge for my group, I can take their skills into account. But say I'm writing an adventure to submit to Dungeon. What's a good difficulty for a Diplomatic challenge for second level characters? We can all agree that a +0 modifier is bad - or at least average. But what's "good" at second level? +8 - Five ranks, +3 Charisma? +18 - Five ranks, +4 Charisma, +6 in synergy bonuses, +5 from Skill Focus and Negotiator? Or the +28 you can get from the crazy optimized combo? As an experienced DM, I can say "OK, my PCs have a +28 Diplomacy, I need to make some adjustments to make this work." But should the system be designed to expect that of the DM? As it stands, 4E allows you to make a character who is a dedicated diplomat, who is the clear champion of the group when it comes to a Diplomatic challenge - but the range of values at 2nd level is nowhere near that +0 to +28 you can get right now. D&D is the best known RPG. It's the one the most people have access to. As a result, I think that it SHOULD be the game with the lowest bar to entry. Many other games provide a greater depth of simulation or character option, but they require a greater level of experience and skill on the part of both storyteller and player.  While I think that 3E is too scattershot. Again, that range of +0 to +28 depending on your personal ability to game the system is just too extreme for me. The default 4E fighter isn't going to have skill in Diplomacy. But he still CAN become a diplomat, if you want - and actually be pretty good at it, better than his 3E counterpart. I've got that level of versatility available to me; I can make the fighter of noble birth with some knowledge of Diplomacy. I'm just not sacrificing my fighting skill in the process - aside from a feat which could have given me a slight advantage in combat, but which doesn't form the entire foundation of my class abilities.</blockquote>

Verification