Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Keith Baker on 4E! (The Hellcow responds!)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Hellcow" data-source="post: 4125541" data-attributes="member: 15800"><p>OK, ok, just one more (it's like potato chips...).</p><p></p><p></p><p>This is what I see as the core of the issue. One of my favorite game systems is Over The Edge. One of the things I love about it is that every campaign is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. There's no class roles, no expectations; you can play virtually anything. </p><p></p><p>So let's take two groups I've run for as examples:</p><p>Group A: A woman who can enter your dreams if she can touch you (when you dream, mind you); a well-known gambler (well-known, but not always well-liked); and a drug-addled gonzo journalist who litterally can't tear his way out of a paper bag. </p><p></p><p>Group B: Five ducks in a battlesuit; a James Bond-level (amnesiac) secret agent; a prepubescent embodiment of chaos; and a homeless mad scientist who can build atomic weaponry out of trash. </p><p></p><p>To really give each group a satisfying experience, I have to create two entirely different stories. They're just too different. Group A will be seriously threatened by a gang of simple muggers with chains and knives; Group B would have the muggers laid out before they had time to say "Your money or--" Meanwhile, Group A has all sorts of noncombat talents group B doesn't possess - such as the ability to enter peoples' dreams, something that's not going to play a role in one of group B's stories. </p><p></p><p>I LOVE the fact that Over The Edge is so versatile and so interesting. But it means that I can't simply pick up a random Over The Edge adventure and expect it to work for my group. I can't even expect to be able to reuse an adventure I've written before. Every story has to be tailored to the group at hand. </p><p></p><p>Even with 4E D&D, I'm GOING to do the same thing; that's what a good DM does. If I've got the PC who's backstory is that he was driven from his ancestral fiefdom and now intends to depose Kaius and conquer Karrnath, well, I'll steer events in the stories towards that. Likewise, it turns out that the paladin and warlock in my group both have Intimidate and are good at it, and they used that to good effect. But not ALL paladins and warlocks are good at Intimidate. My second group has poor initimidation coverage, but strong diplomacy - so when it comes to social challenges, they'll take a different angle. Another group could simply have built themselves with no social skills at all; nothing's preventing you from doing that. There's no "EVERY GROUP AUTOMATICALLY HAS A +10 DIPLOMAT" rule. As a DM, I may point out to the group that they are weak in a certain area; one of my groups sucked at Perception, and they've since rectified it. It's EASY to set things up so that you can get a well-balanced group. But it's still about player choice; you aren't good at everything, you'll simply be good at SOMETHING in both the combat and noncombat arenas. </p><p></p><p>And now I'm running late... $%@^!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hellcow, post: 4125541, member: 15800"] OK, ok, just one more (it's like potato chips...). This is what I see as the core of the issue. One of my favorite game systems is Over The Edge. One of the things I love about it is that every campaign is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. There's no class roles, no expectations; you can play virtually anything. So let's take two groups I've run for as examples: Group A: A woman who can enter your dreams if she can touch you (when you dream, mind you); a well-known gambler (well-known, but not always well-liked); and a drug-addled gonzo journalist who litterally can't tear his way out of a paper bag. Group B: Five ducks in a battlesuit; a James Bond-level (amnesiac) secret agent; a prepubescent embodiment of chaos; and a homeless mad scientist who can build atomic weaponry out of trash. To really give each group a satisfying experience, I have to create two entirely different stories. They're just too different. Group A will be seriously threatened by a gang of simple muggers with chains and knives; Group B would have the muggers laid out before they had time to say "Your money or--" Meanwhile, Group A has all sorts of noncombat talents group B doesn't possess - such as the ability to enter peoples' dreams, something that's not going to play a role in one of group B's stories. I LOVE the fact that Over The Edge is so versatile and so interesting. But it means that I can't simply pick up a random Over The Edge adventure and expect it to work for my group. I can't even expect to be able to reuse an adventure I've written before. Every story has to be tailored to the group at hand. Even with 4E D&D, I'm GOING to do the same thing; that's what a good DM does. If I've got the PC who's backstory is that he was driven from his ancestral fiefdom and now intends to depose Kaius and conquer Karrnath, well, I'll steer events in the stories towards that. Likewise, it turns out that the paladin and warlock in my group both have Intimidate and are good at it, and they used that to good effect. But not ALL paladins and warlocks are good at Intimidate. My second group has poor initimidation coverage, but strong diplomacy - so when it comes to social challenges, they'll take a different angle. Another group could simply have built themselves with no social skills at all; nothing's preventing you from doing that. There's no "EVERY GROUP AUTOMATICALLY HAS A +10 DIPLOMAT" rule. As a DM, I may point out to the group that they are weak in a certain area; one of my groups sucked at Perception, and they've since rectified it. It's EASY to set things up so that you can get a well-balanced group. But it's still about player choice; you aren't good at everything, you'll simply be good at SOMETHING in both the combat and noncombat arenas. And now I'm running late... $%@^! [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Keith Baker on 4E! (The Hellcow responds!)
Top