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Kicking the tires vs. puncturing the tires; being effective vs. breaking the game
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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 9111713" data-attributes="member: 18"><p>I mean, compared to most popular RPGs 4E was very hard to break, like you had to have really in-depth system knowledge and access to specific Feats and abilities, generally. Most people didn't even work it out themselves, they just read a guide by someone on the internet. Whereas in a lot of RPGs there's some ability in the corebook which is just wildly overpowered to the point of being a joke - like Celerity in some editions of Vampire. Shadowrun and Cyberpunk had a ton of stuff which could "break" combat or stealth or other parts of the game. I managed to work out how to completely break stealth in 2E or 3E Shadowrun, with like two spells. I can't remember it now but it was really dumb, and I just thought of it on a lazy afternoon.</p><p></p><p>1/2/3E were very very easy to break, but in 1/2E it was usually down to magic items or certain spells, rather than something players could choose to do (so the DM was generally the one, even if unknowingly, doing the breaking), and 3E it was just "play a full caster and pick Feats that make your spells harder to stop and/or let you make magic items" boom done - you could do victory laps with stuff like PrCs but you were basically already there.</p><p></p><p>5E is even harder to break than 4E, particularly without multiclassing, because it's so straightforward. I think we're back to a situation where the most likely way it breaks is the DM manages to hand out overpowered magic items, but they have to go further than 1/2E. I've even been in a campaign where that happened - there are a lot of kind-OP items in 5E that don't need attunement, as it turns out.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 9111713, member: 18"] I mean, compared to most popular RPGs 4E was very hard to break, like you had to have really in-depth system knowledge and access to specific Feats and abilities, generally. Most people didn't even work it out themselves, they just read a guide by someone on the internet. Whereas in a lot of RPGs there's some ability in the corebook which is just wildly overpowered to the point of being a joke - like Celerity in some editions of Vampire. Shadowrun and Cyberpunk had a ton of stuff which could "break" combat or stealth or other parts of the game. I managed to work out how to completely break stealth in 2E or 3E Shadowrun, with like two spells. I can't remember it now but it was really dumb, and I just thought of it on a lazy afternoon. 1/2/3E were very very easy to break, but in 1/2E it was usually down to magic items or certain spells, rather than something players could choose to do (so the DM was generally the one, even if unknowingly, doing the breaking), and 3E it was just "play a full caster and pick Feats that make your spells harder to stop and/or let you make magic items" boom done - you could do victory laps with stuff like PrCs but you were basically already there. 5E is even harder to break than 4E, particularly without multiclassing, because it's so straightforward. I think we're back to a situation where the most likely way it breaks is the DM manages to hand out overpowered magic items, but they have to go further than 1/2E. I've even been in a campaign where that happened - there are a lot of kind-OP items in 5E that don't need attunement, as it turns out. [/QUOTE]
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Kicking the tires vs. puncturing the tires; being effective vs. breaking the game
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