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<blockquote data-quote="Felon" data-source="post: 5779085" data-attributes="member: 8158">You apparently have been playing a lot of HERO System, because in D&amp;D they're called &quot;ability scores&quot;, not &quot;characteristics&quot;. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Seems the only reason to advocate randomly-rolled characters is specifically so that a lot of players *won't'* get the characters they want. It is essentially a way to deny players a sense of control.Personally, I say ditch ability scores altogether. Ability scores existed at a time before feats and skills. They've been displaced.How does having different XP charts for different classes keep the game moving?What I primarily recall about this element of AD&amp;D was that if you took a good look at the charts, it was evident that only at extreme ranges (thief and magic-user) were you likely to be more than one level higher than a class with equivalent XP. And when I pointed how much thieves stank on ice in virtually every respect (even the stuff they were supposed to be good at), the primary response was &quot;well, that's accounted for by allowing you to progress faster than everybody else&quot;. It's a huge non-sequitor: I'm more marginal than everybody else--horrible hit points, saving throws, armor, HP, THACO, weapon profs--even though I'm&nbsp; a level higher than them, but my higher level is somehow compensation. So, basically, we're talking about a huge non sequitor. Personally, I really think there's a lot overemphasis on character generation, to the point where actual gameplay seems secondary.Well, some examples here would help, but I generally agree that saving throws have defanged many 4e monsters. Over in the &quot;Saving Throws: What Should Become of Them?&quot; thread, I mentioned how I want things like medusas to have more than a slight chance of actually petrifying someone who's blithely running into their gaze. The point of such a monster is to make the players back down and use better tactics, not bum rush them.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Felon, post: 5779085, member: 8158"] You apparently have been playing a lot of HERO System, because in D&D they're called "ability scores", not "characteristics". :) Seems the only reason to advocate randomly-rolled characters is specifically so that a lot of players *won't'* get the characters they want. It is essentially a way to deny players a sense of control. Personally, I say ditch ability scores altogether. Ability scores existed at a time before feats and skills. They've been displaced. How does having different XP charts for different classes keep the game moving? What I primarily recall about this element of AD&D was that if you took a good look at the charts, it was evident that only at extreme ranges (thief and magic-user) were you likely to be more than one level higher than a class with equivalent XP. And when I pointed how much thieves stank on ice in virtually every respect (even the stuff they were supposed to be good at), the primary response was "well, that's accounted for by allowing you to progress faster than everybody else". It's a huge non-sequitor: I'm more marginal than everybody else--horrible hit points, saving throws, armor, HP, THACO, weapon profs--even though I'm a level higher than them, but my higher level is somehow compensation. So, basically, we're talking about a huge non sequitor. Personally, I really think there's a lot overemphasis on character generation, to the point where actual gameplay seems secondary. Well, some examples here would help, but I generally agree that saving throws have defanged many 4e monsters. Over in the "Saving Throws: What Should Become of Them?" thread, I mentioned how I want things like medusas to have more than a slight chance of actually petrifying someone who's blithely running into their gaze. The point of such a monster is to make the players back down and use better tactics, not bum rush them. [/QUOTE]

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