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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 5781702" data-attributes="member: 2067">I dunno, that sounds a little cynical to me. I think that people who value &quot;flavor&quot; and &quot;verisimiltude&quot; generally believe that player satisfaction comes from these things first, that without these things, there isn't as much player satisfaction. Thus, rules that, in their view, damage these things, don't accomplish the goal of making everyone at the table happy -- a limitation on player options for the goal of flavor or verisimilitude makes the game better for everyone, even if it's a small limitation in the rules. And there may be plenty of players who are satisfied with that explanation, or who, at least, don't mind indulging the DM in that way. I really don't think the raw hatred of other people having fun is quite as strong as you seem to believe. People can be crazy divisive, but I think a lot of that springs from the idea that there is One Best Way To Play and everyone who isn't playing that way is Doing It Wrong. 5e seems to be abandoning the idea that there is only one way to do things, and embracing the idea that people have fun in different ways, some of them mutually exclusive.I guess I'm not quite convinced that most of the people who play or DM D&amp;D just want to be jerks. My own experience is that most of the people who play or DM D&amp;D really want to have fun with their friends while pretending to be magical gumdrop elves (or whatever). It might be anomalous, but it at least is a datapoint in favor of the idea that an inclusive game isn't automatically going to be loathed by a hate-fueled base. As long as the game is inclusive, and doesn't tell you The Only Way To Play (tm), I don't see it having a major problem.And I guess those few that DO have a problem with it...those people who can't stand the idea that my fun with the game might be different from their fun with the game...I'm pretty happy to loose those people as D&amp;D fans. I'm really not eager to keep around folks who think that because I don't like minis combat (or whatever), I shouldn't be allowed to play Official D&amp;D. I honestly think those people are in a minority.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 5781702, member: 2067"] I dunno, that sounds a little cynical to me. I think that people who value "flavor" and "verisimiltude" generally believe that player satisfaction comes from these things first, that without these things, there isn't as much player satisfaction. Thus, rules that, in their view, damage these things, don't accomplish the goal of making everyone at the table happy -- a limitation on player options for the goal of flavor or verisimilitude makes the game better for everyone, even if it's a small limitation in the rules. And there may be plenty of players who are satisfied with that explanation, or who, at least, don't mind indulging the DM in that way. I really don't think the raw hatred of other people having fun is quite as strong as you seem to believe. People can be crazy divisive, but I think a lot of that springs from the idea that there is One Best Way To Play and everyone who isn't playing that way is Doing It Wrong. 5e seems to be abandoning the idea that there is only one way to do things, and embracing the idea that people have fun in different ways, some of them mutually exclusive. I guess I'm not quite convinced that most of the people who play or DM D&D just want to be jerks. My own experience is that most of the people who play or DM D&D really want to have fun with their friends while pretending to be magical gumdrop elves (or whatever). It might be anomalous, but it at least is a datapoint in favor of the idea that an inclusive game isn't automatically going to be loathed by a hate-fueled base. As long as the game is inclusive, and doesn't tell you The Only Way To Play (tm), I don't see it having a major problem. And I guess those few that DO have a problem with it...those people who can't stand the idea that my fun with the game might be different from their fun with the game...I'm pretty happy to loose those people as D&D fans. I'm really not eager to keep around folks who think that because I don't like minis combat (or whatever), I shouldn't be allowed to play Official D&D. I honestly think those people are in a minority. [/QUOTE]

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