Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
D&D Older Editions
Kill Mongo! 4E min/max design challenge.
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="robgmsft" data-source="post: 4276586" data-attributes="member: 8729"><p><strong>A little analysis...</strong></p><p></p><p>OK, just spent the morning playing with spreadsheets (yes, I'm a giant dork, thank you) and looking at expected per round damage for a rogue who fights 10 rounds with 5 flanking.</p><p></p><p>I ignored per encounter abilities (although as you get more of them they become more relevant) and focused on Piercing Strike and Sly Flourish builds. Piercing strike tends to work better until the AC is only 1 greater than the reflex. Many monsters have +3 to +5 AC over reflex, so PS seems to be the clear winner here.</p><p></p><p>20 dex vs 18 dex was no contest - by far the biggest win of any decision.</p><p></p><p>If you assume Eladrin teleport will add one extra flanking round then you get an extra .68 average damage per round.</p><p></p><p>Elf reroll, on the other hand, only added .20 dpr and nimble layered on top of that gives you merely .22. Reroll is much better used for daily's, but for this exercise it's clearly the loser to teleport.</p><p></p><p>The dagger's extra to-hit doesn't make up for the loss in damage over the shotsword.</p><p></p><p>OK, so we've got an Eladrin Rogue using a shortsword with 20 Dex, here are the calculated deltas for each relevent damaging feat or choice:</p><p></p><p>Backstabber: +1.02</p><p>Use a Rapier: +.86</p><p>Two weapon fighting: +.81</p><p>Weapon Focus: +.81</p><p>Nimble: +.46</p><p>Press Advantage: +.34 (1 extra sneak attack 50% of the time)</p><p>Charging on your first round with power charge: +.18</p><p>Use a Katar: +.17</p><p>Power Attack: +.15</p><p>Improved initiative: +.14 (1 extra Sneak Attack 20% of the time)</p><p>Charging on your first combat round: +.13</p><p>Quickdraw: +.07 (1 extra Sneak Attack 10% of the time)</p><p>Use a Dagger: -.28</p><p></p><p>(note: I also posted this as a new thread, just for fun.)</p><p></p><p>I guess the most interesting take-away for me from this is that things the rogue and his team-mates do to allow for flanking are generally as or more important than these build decisions. I think I'll take Rapier/Backstabber/TWF/Focus and then get jack of all trades to make up for my gimped skills.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="robgmsft, post: 4276586, member: 8729"] [b]A little analysis...[/b] OK, just spent the morning playing with spreadsheets (yes, I'm a giant dork, thank you) and looking at expected per round damage for a rogue who fights 10 rounds with 5 flanking. I ignored per encounter abilities (although as you get more of them they become more relevant) and focused on Piercing Strike and Sly Flourish builds. Piercing strike tends to work better until the AC is only 1 greater than the reflex. Many monsters have +3 to +5 AC over reflex, so PS seems to be the clear winner here. 20 dex vs 18 dex was no contest - by far the biggest win of any decision. If you assume Eladrin teleport will add one extra flanking round then you get an extra .68 average damage per round. Elf reroll, on the other hand, only added .20 dpr and nimble layered on top of that gives you merely .22. Reroll is much better used for daily's, but for this exercise it's clearly the loser to teleport. The dagger's extra to-hit doesn't make up for the loss in damage over the shotsword. OK, so we've got an Eladrin Rogue using a shortsword with 20 Dex, here are the calculated deltas for each relevent damaging feat or choice: Backstabber: +1.02 Use a Rapier: +.86 Two weapon fighting: +.81 Weapon Focus: +.81 Nimble: +.46 Press Advantage: +.34 (1 extra sneak attack 50% of the time) Charging on your first round with power charge: +.18 Use a Katar: +.17 Power Attack: +.15 Improved initiative: +.14 (1 extra Sneak Attack 20% of the time) Charging on your first combat round: +.13 Quickdraw: +.07 (1 extra Sneak Attack 10% of the time) Use a Dagger: -.28 (note: I also posted this as a new thread, just for fun.) I guess the most interesting take-away for me from this is that things the rogue and his team-mates do to allow for flanking are generally as or more important than these build decisions. I think I'll take Rapier/Backstabber/TWF/Focus and then get jack of all trades to make up for my gimped skills. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
D&D Older Editions
Kill Mongo! 4E min/max design challenge.
Top