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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Bryan898" data-source="post: 2157447" data-attributes="member: 9085">I was rather intrigued by this topic, and actually pulled out some of my old books to look over the differences.  I only played 2nd, 3rd, and 3.5, so I can't comment on 1st edition.Hit points were much lower in 2nd edition.  After 9th level they barely increased at all.  In 2nd edition if that ogre hit you for 14 damage, or that magic missile for 20, your 14th level fighter felt it (average HP for a 16 Con 14th level fighter is 84).  Now your average 14th level fighter would shrug that off (average HP 3.5 is 124).  Note that in 2nd edition only a warrior class was entitled to a con bonus of +3 or higher, so with other classes the Hit Point comparison is skewed a bit more.The introduction of abilities like Evasion and Mettle make damaging spells possibly less potent in 3.5.  Used to be a fireball was always going to hurt.It's easier to get ahold of items or abilities that give you resistances to energy damage, criticals, sneak attacks, or spell resistance.  There were more spells without saves and save-or-die spells.  Example:  Sleep- no save in 2nd, as of 3.0 Will negates.  Death spell, a no save instant kill for creatures 8 HD or under in 2nd, now gone.  Disintegrate was a save or die in 2nd and 3.0, now its save or take lots of damage.  Harm was basically an almost instant kill, now it deals damage.  Otto's Irresistable Dance used to make it impossible to make a Ref save, now its a -10 modifier.  Symbols didn't use to have saves.  Energy drain and level loss was permanent without a save.  Imprisonment didn't have a save.  Hold Person now allows a new save every round.  Creeping doom is no longer an instant kill, as of 3.5 it summons swarms, rather weak IMO.  The Holy Word type of spells definetely became much stronger in 3.X, being based off of your CL instead of the targets HD.  Stoneskin instantly blocked attacks for 1d4+2/level attacks, and you may think that it weaker because it protected for less attacks, but let's remember in 2nd you only got about 1/2 as many attacks as now.  Same with mirror image.  Haste was a must have, as it was in 3.0, but unlike 3.0 it AGED you, which is a heck of an incentive to not abuse it.More importantly than the change to spells is the change to saving throws.  In 2nd edition the best save you are going to get was a base for your level.  The 20th level fighter got a 6 for save vs spells, and there was nothing you could do about it.  The spell destruction gives a -4 to your save, so a 20th level fighter hit by a destruction has a 50& chance of dying.  Now you can increase your saves in all manners of ways, feats, items, multiclassing, abilities, etc.Ever compare the poisons of 2nd edition to 3.X?  Notice that they got rid of the poisons that were die or take 20 damage?  I remember in the old days someone decided to put that on his dual short swords... ouch.  Now you have saves like 2d6 Con/ Death.  So to die not only does the target have to fail two saves, but he has to not nuetralize poison before the secondary effect comes.  Which yes in combat that's hard sometimes, but if used on a trap somewhat easier to do.  Now there's also all these synergy bonuses and such.  You can easily build a fighter that does 15-20 damage a hit, just look at some of the damage builds over on wizard's Character Optimization board.  I remember when I thought my character was a god because he did at least 10 points of damage an attack in 2nd edition.  Now I can get at least 15 damage an attack, get twice as many attacks, and crit four times as often.Creatures used to be immune to weapons of +X or lower.  It made it all but impossible to tackle certain creatures without being a certain level.  It also made you completely reliant on your items.  Now you can avoid DR with align weapon and such, or do more damage than they have (hard I know).Now then, all that being said, I think the earlier editions were less PC friendly.  I still like 3.5 better than any other edition I've played, and like the changes.  I also think that how deadly the game is sits completely on the DM's shoulders, but the system is built to be more PC friendly in 3.5.</blockquote>

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