Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Edena_of_Neith" data-source="post: 3617856" data-attributes="member: 2020">(musings)  Ok, now that we're back in the realm of pure fantasy ...  Most people who play really never give it much thought, as far as I know, and based on my own experiences.  This thread is an exception in that I'm trying to discuss the issue philosophically, but I've rarely seen it done outside threads like this one.  Some DMs beat their players over the head with alignment.  Don't ask me why, for I don't know.  It can make playing a paladin a real headache, if you get a DM like that.  But even then, if you're playing a non-cleric, non-good character, you can pretty much do what you want.  When I was a kid, and first starting in the game, I played entirely good characters.  I was the only person I knew who did that.  I was out in the wilderness, so to speak.  *Everyone* around me played evil characters.  Neutral evil was the favored alignment.  It was viewed as the Fun alignment, the Freedom alignment, and the Kill, Kill, Kill! alignment (LOL ... TRUST ME when I say THOSE games were all about killing!)  So we had this wizard, and he was 75th level, and his army of mages wrecked half the Flanaess (my Solistari War is based on the actual history of play of the players I knew.)  Then he was assassinated by the Guildmaster Assassin.  The Guildmaster Assassin PC also trapped the *entire army* of Greyhawk City, and slaughtered them all.  We had Crownose the Executioner, Vlad the Impaler, Morgoth the Malevolent, and Glomeron the Gross.  This adventuring group, styling itself the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, did just about what you'd expect out of them.  Then, they started robbing banks, and after they reached 30th level from it, one player declared he's Won the Game, and retired from play.  We had 100th level characters stating they were invincible and could take the Tomb of Horrors with ease (and they found out, the hard way, that even 100th level characters are not immune to the Tomb's special infamy.)  The Skylord trashed one Greyhawk city after another from his flying citadel (and this was long before Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman came out with flying citadels)  and nobody could figure out how to bring it down.  He destroyed Rel Astra, Irongate, Rel Mord ... you name the coastal city, he blasted it from the air.  And then there was the one player I knew, and his motto was:  'I pulp him! I PULP him!  I PULP HIM!'  (killing, dismembering, and otherwise trashing the body wasn't enough, see:  it had to be pulped.)    I seriously doubt that anyone involved in the game at that time, considered the relevance of alignment or wanted to discuss it philosophically!!    It was just kill, kill, kill!  And gather the plunder into piles of 1 billion gold pieces (I once saw a character get allowed to pick up, carry around, and fight with 100,000 gold pieces on him.  No Girdle of Giant Strength, no nothing.  No biggie ... anyone can waltz around carrying 2 tons of metal.  And in an ordinary large sack, at that.)  The few 'good guys' I saw played, were generally as terrifying as the evil guys.  (The idea of someone playing an exalted character, from the BOED, back then would have probably caused half of those I knew to faint!)  So we all grew out of it, right?  Nah.  The adolescent is still there, in all of us.  And he (or she) wants out.  Sometimes, he slips past our guard and gets out and causes trouble, despite all our efforts at stomping him down with an industrial drill press.  The point?  You can have your 'good guys' be as bad as the baddest bad guy around, worse than Ivid by far, not pay a whit's worth of attention to alignment, have a great time, kill lots of stuff and get the loot, and enjoy it over pizza and pepsi.  The other point?  That doesn't work for me anymore.  But instead of 'powering down' as so many of my fellows have done, I've turned to the rules for aid in creating 'interesting' (read:  messed up, munchkin, horrifying, game-breaking stuff) ideas.  Now, in the case of Medegia, we have a clear case of a Large Power stomping a Small Power.  Aerdi is big and strong, and they squish Medegia like you'd step on a bug.  Enter me.  I concede the canon.  Then try to figure out how, within those fiendish rules, how the Medegians could have turned the tables on Aerdi.  That's me.  That's how I work.  They can't do it with mere military force.  They can't do it with clever, game-breaking tricks the other side could pull (such as Polymorphing Other an orc in the midst of the enemy army into a tarrasque.)  They can't do it with ultimate game-breaking stunts, since the other side can pull them also (like Polymorphing Other half their own population into nilbogs.)  They can't do it by any means I can think of.  But that doesn't mean it can't be done!    I bet that if I shouted:  Medegia cannot be saved!  Medegia, is DOOMED!  ... that half a dozen people on ENWorld would jump in with brilliant answers on how to save Medegia.  LOL.  That's what I should have done ...  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  Well, consider my latest insane idea:  that Medegia is full of these clerics, and they're resurrecting everyone, and everyone is accustomed to resurrection, and everyone is high level from constantly fighting each other.  Sorta like the drow under Lolth, only more zany, taking the rules to the nth degree.  So when Ivid shows up, Medegia pounds his army and sends it running with it's tale between it's legs.  Only three problems:  They can't pull this stunt and remain sane.  (Or, if it's sanity, it's a wierd sanity.)  Ivid can pull the same stunt, which then snowballs to envelop the entire world in this fine madness.  If they are still a 'good' people, it's a most particular good.  I'll tell you something:  if you think my hypothetical Medegians are nutty, look at the actual rulers in the Ivid the Undying PDF.  I'm telling you, after Aerdi disintegrated, the lunatics took over the place, and I mean they REALLY took over.  And that's canon.  -  I guess my question cannot be answered, because there is no answer.  The 'good guys' can't enjoy killing as fun and games.  They're just stuck being good guys.  (sighs)  And Medegia, is doomed.    Heh.  In my last thread, I argued that the elves were doomed, and everyone said:  No, they're not!  In this thread, I'm arguing that Medegia is not doomed, and everyone has said:  Yes, it is!  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

Verification