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<blockquote data-quote="Eirikrautha" data-source="post: 7743404" data-attributes="member: 6777843">First of all, this article reads as if the definition of &quot;hero&quot; is something that is, if not universally agreed upon, concrete enough that it doesn't need to be mentioned.&nbsp; That is the primary flaw that creates the false tension addressed by the rest of the article.The fact is that the term hero, as used in a modern context, can most accurately be defined as &quot;someone who reflects the dominant cultural values (or my cultural values, depending on the context).&quot;&nbsp; For example, most fantasy RPGs privilege violence as heroic action because of the influence of Tolkien, who himself was reflecting the Anglo-Saxon values system of the stories he loved (and knew well).&nbsp; Beowulf was not a &quot;hero&quot; for saving Hrothgar; he was a hero for killing Grendel.&nbsp; The idea of the &quot;sacrificial&quot; hero is primarily a construct of Christianity in the Western world.&nbsp; The hero who sacrifices himself for others would be unrecognizable outside of a cultural values system that did not center on the sacrifice of notable cultural characters.&nbsp; Many cultures would consider such actions/behavior stupid.&nbsp; To stretch this concept to an extreme, there are extant cultures today for whom &quot;heroism&quot; can be defined as blowing up women and children in order to demoralize your &quot;enemy.&quot;What you are actually saying in your article is that, whether you are aware of it or not, the dominant Judeo-Christian concept of sacrifice is the basis for your definition of hero, so you find fantasy games that express different cultural values systems less heroic.&nbsp; That is totally your prerogative.&nbsp; I certainly hope you find systems and settings to satisfy your values system!&nbsp; But &quot;killing&quot; is not a &quot;problem&quot; in heroic RPGs, especially when you understand that part of the enjoyment for some of us is roleplaying those different cultural values, ones that are out of place in the modern world...</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Eirikrautha, post: 7743404, member: 6777843"] First of all, this article reads as if the definition of "hero" is something that is, if not universally agreed upon, concrete enough that it doesn't need to be mentioned. That is the primary flaw that creates the false tension addressed by the rest of the article. The fact is that the term hero, as used in a modern context, can most accurately be defined as "someone who reflects the dominant cultural values (or my cultural values, depending on the context)." For example, most fantasy RPGs privilege violence as heroic action because of the influence of Tolkien, who himself was reflecting the Anglo-Saxon values system of the stories he loved (and knew well). Beowulf was not a "hero" for saving Hrothgar; he was a hero for killing Grendel. The idea of the "sacrificial" hero is primarily a construct of Christianity in the Western world. The hero who sacrifices himself for others would be unrecognizable outside of a cultural values system that did not center on the sacrifice of notable cultural characters. Many cultures would consider such actions/behavior stupid. To stretch this concept to an extreme, there are extant cultures today for whom "heroism" can be defined as blowing up women and children in order to demoralize your "enemy." What you are actually saying in your article is that, whether you are aware of it or not, the dominant Judeo-Christian concept of sacrifice is the basis for your definition of hero, so you find fantasy games that express different cultural values systems less heroic. That is totally your prerogative. I certainly hope you find systems and settings to satisfy your values system! But "killing" is not a "problem" in heroic RPGs, especially when you understand that part of the enjoyment for some of us is roleplaying those different cultural values, ones that are out of place in the modern world... [/QUOTE]

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