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Killing is bad: how to establish morality
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<blockquote data-quote="Dualazi" data-source="post: 6931096" data-attributes="member: 6855537"><p>Excuse me for needing clarification, did you mean you would like to see more of this ‘heroic’ sub-optimal play when you say it “falls away”? As in, it’s present in other media forms and then is absent in D&D?</p><p></p><p>The more practical way of looking at it is that in other structured media the fate of the character is always out of the player’s hands, while simultaneously hand-waiving any negative consequences as a result of these actions. Batman was mentioned earlier, and he’s a prime example of this. We all know that he’ll win in the end, same as we know that the joker will escape, and any lives lost as a result of this little repetition are casually ignored. PC’s don’t have that luxury, they (ideally) don’t have plot armor, and most savvy players understand cause and effect.</p><p></p><p>This transitions into the more philosophical side, where you have to ask yourself if such base bravado really qualifies as ‘good’. If there’s no way to rehabilitate an evil population like gnolls/kobolds/goblins/whatever, then yes, full extermination is a ‘good’ act, in my book. There are so many viewpoints people can hold on the topic of morality that really you should just sit down with your players and lay out what is and isn’t negotiable, since D&D at least operates on good and evil being quasi-tangible forces that can affect the world.</p><p></p><p>Lastly, I assume people don’t do it for the simple metagaming reason that they don’t like being burned, same as when many people don’t have family in their backstories, because the DM will try and use them negatively. Every time a released prisoner backstabs them, and every time a villain falls of a cliff only to return, the PCs become more inclined to simply solve their problems in the most permanent fashion they can.</p><p></p><p>To answer your question though, I wouldn’t go with inspiration. I would try and make it worth their while in other ways, such as gaining new contacts and allies, or having the captured foes reveal important information. This makes PCs see it as a viable way of conducting their group to meet their goals, rather than an obligation to avoid being called evil. Basically, if you make it so it’s not always sub-optimal, then they’ll treat it as such without the need for a carrot on a stick.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dualazi, post: 6931096, member: 6855537"] Excuse me for needing clarification, did you mean you would like to see more of this ‘heroic’ sub-optimal play when you say it “falls away”? As in, it’s present in other media forms and then is absent in D&D? The more practical way of looking at it is that in other structured media the fate of the character is always out of the player’s hands, while simultaneously hand-waiving any negative consequences as a result of these actions. Batman was mentioned earlier, and he’s a prime example of this. We all know that he’ll win in the end, same as we know that the joker will escape, and any lives lost as a result of this little repetition are casually ignored. PC’s don’t have that luxury, they (ideally) don’t have plot armor, and most savvy players understand cause and effect. This transitions into the more philosophical side, where you have to ask yourself if such base bravado really qualifies as ‘good’. If there’s no way to rehabilitate an evil population like gnolls/kobolds/goblins/whatever, then yes, full extermination is a ‘good’ act, in my book. There are so many viewpoints people can hold on the topic of morality that really you should just sit down with your players and lay out what is and isn’t negotiable, since D&D at least operates on good and evil being quasi-tangible forces that can affect the world. Lastly, I assume people don’t do it for the simple metagaming reason that they don’t like being burned, same as when many people don’t have family in their backstories, because the DM will try and use them negatively. Every time a released prisoner backstabs them, and every time a villain falls of a cliff only to return, the PCs become more inclined to simply solve their problems in the most permanent fashion they can. To answer your question though, I wouldn’t go with inspiration. I would try and make it worth their while in other ways, such as gaining new contacts and allies, or having the captured foes reveal important information. This makes PCs see it as a viable way of conducting their group to meet their goals, rather than an obligation to avoid being called evil. Basically, if you make it so it’s not always sub-optimal, then they’ll treat it as such without the need for a carrot on a stick. [/QUOTE]
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