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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Pax" data-source="post: 507597" data-attributes="member: 6875">Depending, of course, on armor choices -- and IIRC, the Kir Lanaan do not wear traditional PHB-style armor; they have their own, racial armor which is the equivalent of Leather, only.  As a flying creature, I fail to see how most forms of Heavy-class armor would permit continued flight, while being worn.  Even Mithril Full Plate would be too restrictive, or, would have to leave large swaths of the Kir-Lanan uncovered (the wings, and areas around the wing-shoulders ...).Also, your count of feats is slightly off.  A human Fighter-8 should have 8 feats (racial; character levels 1, 3, and 6; fighter levels 1, 2, 4, 6, and 8); the Kir-Lanan will have 4 feats (racial/monster levels; character level 1; fighter levels 1 and 2).  That's a gap one wider than you listed.  Also note, the Fighter's higher BAB qualifies him (IIRC) for Improved Critical, not to mention having enough fighter levels for Weapon Specialisation.  That's a bit of further advantage to the human fighter, IMO.You won't find me arguing that this isn't a BIG advantage -- IMO, aside form the coolness factor of the Kir-Lanan concept, it's the main mechanics reason to play a Kir-Lanan!  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I think it should be reasonable to impose the same limits in terms of armor and encumbrance on ANY creature that flies through means other than pure magic, as are imposed on flying steeds.  So to retain that flight, the Kir-Lanan has to accept a more restricted choice of armor.  Also, the Kir-Lanan is not gettign the +1 skill point / level of the human fighter (of course); I don't think we should overlook ANY differences, do you?By only 2 points (Human Fighter base saves add to 24, Kir-Lanan Fighter base saves add to 26).  Less significant at higher levels than at lower levels.But behind in terms of actual skill points, I believe.Um.  Human Fighter(20) ... try 20 feats (racial; character levels 1, 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, and 18; fighter levels 1, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, and 20).  Well more than 12.Kir-Lanan Fighter(14), that's 14 feats (race/monster level, character levels 1, 3, 6, 9, and 12; fighter levels 1, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, and 14).The gap has widened to 6 ....Given we're talking about an FRCS race, I feel quite confident in pointing out that the fighter can catch up -- and then some -- for well less than 40,000gp.  There are several methods to get flight -- usable at will -- other than Wings of Flying.  The Winged Mask, IIRC, from Magic of Faerun, is significantly cheaper (for the minor drawback of highlighting your presence whenever you fly).Also, the ffighter can gain +3 natural AC, as you noted, from the Amulet.  For the Kir-Lanan to get the same +3 armor beyond their base state, costs SIGNIFICANTLY more than it cost the fighter (as they would need to get an EPIC Amulet of Natural Armor +6 ... !!).15 hit points and six feats.  Loss of natural armor edge for (in the eyes of a human Fighter-20) is a PITTANCE in monetary terms; logically, the inability to wear heavy armor at ALL (resulting in a LOWER net AC for the Kir-Lanan), if flight is desired.No; two more levels would, at 20th ECL, give the Kir-Lanan only 2 more feats (Character-15 and Fighter-16), narrowing the gap from 6 feats to 4 feats.  You really need to learn to count feats better ... no offense.</blockquote>

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