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Message: <blockquote data-quote="rounser" data-source="post: 732268" data-attributes="member: 1106">No.I mean there should be more that can kick in at first level, but that defeats the purpose of the prestige class paradigm, so I say come up with something better.Save the nitpicking rhetoric for the argument.  Consider yourself disagreed with, and some other people too, such as Victim - thus the "fellows". <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f644.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":rolleyes:" title="Roll eyes    :rolleyes:"  data-smilie="11"data-shortname=":rolleyes:" />No and no.You do have a point, but you're over-extending it.  The existence of non-feat special abilities and prestige classes themselves suggest that no, there are some things you can't do with feats, or are impractical to do with feats and are better done by some other mechanism.  There's also the "class identity" thing which is one of D&D's subtle selling points which you continue to trivialise as if it utterly doesn't matter, which I think is overstating your position unnecessarily for sake of refuting my position.  I say that it would be nice that if a prestige class/kit did match your character, you could take it, when you wanted to and not when the metagame wanted to.  The metagame should be structured such that such add-ons can be balanced at any level.  Should, ideally.  Notice the "would be nice" and "an annoyance" thing before replying.This is probably why you're continuing to fail to see where I'm coming from.  A 2E kit was a sort of overlay for a character class.  It had a name, a selection of flavoured special abilities and some disadvantages to compensate.  You could only select one at first level.  For example, you could take the Fighter class, and the Cavalier kit.  You'd basically be a fighter, but the kit would provide some flavour and abilities in the Cavalier vein.Kits were badly implemented by different authors, and got a bad reputation for game balance abuses.  Some folks confused bad implementation with complete bankruptcy of concept, and as I've observed, kits were made something of a scapegoat for everything people disliked about 2E.I'd like to see prestige class/kit type stuff changed such that they can be taken when the campaign and/or the character are ready, not at some arbitrary stage when prerequisites are met - even if this means from first level.  Forget the game balance issues, there's multiple ways to iron out the details on them, but prestige classes cannot be taken from first level, whereas kits could.  That's something 2E does better than 3E, with an equivalent mechanic.  I could customise a character a bit with proficiencies under 2E as well, but I don't agree that the customisations available under 3E make the need for prestige class/kit analogues irrelevant, as you seem to be trying to argue.My best proof of this?  Their mere existence.</blockquote>

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