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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 3383780" data-attributes="member: 4937">I don't really have a problem with the term 'Dark Ages', though I do have a problem with how broadly that the term is applied.  There is a dark period in Western Europe from about 400 AD to about 900 AD, which is prior to the period of knights, fuedalism, crusades, castles, chivilry platemail and longswords that most people think about when they think about 'Medieval Times'.  By the time you get to all those things that people know about, Western Europe is no longer dark and in particular Northwestern Europe is not dark for the first time in its history.  My personal feeling is that by the time you get to Alfred the Great and Charlemange, the 'Dark' part is basically over, the long decline has been reversed, and Europe is getting back on its feet again.Similarly, my take on antiquity was that it was basically in social decay from about 200 BC on.  The Hellenistic period marked a long swing toward stagnation, the slave based economy was holding technological advancement back, there were fundamental problems with the Greek moral/ethical system (something Socretes was already getting into hundreds of years earlier), people were already looking backward rather than looking forward, and the Hellenized culture was falling into decadence and apathy.  I mark the beginning of the end to Cassius's sacking of Rhodes (42 BC), and the loss of the Library in Alexandria (at least in part, date uncertain, but possibly 48 BC).  They weren't lethal blows to the learning of the Ancient world, but after that technology is every bit as stagnant as it was in the Dark Ages.  The writing goes on for several more centuries, and Roman survives through a couple of purges, but the energy is already going out of the ancient world long before anyone recognized the lights were off.</blockquote>

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