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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cristian Andreu" data-source="post: 6554815" data-attributes="member: 23822">Aye, I'm with you there: If players try for alternatives other than outright murder, I like to encourage that.My interpretation was that the Massive Damage still applies even when trying to knock someone out, representing the inherent danger of hitting too hard and killing the victim by accident. However, that made stealth-based situations very difficult for the rogue (who was CG and didn't want to actually kill anybody; he was just there to investigate), who either risked hitting and alerting the victims (by not dealing enough damage to reduce them to 0 in one hit and thus knock them out) or risked killing them (by dealing too much damage in a single hit).The sap helped fix that problem, but I'm not sure if I'm either missing something or misunderstanding the rules.</blockquote>