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<blockquote data-quote="Tellerian Hawke" data-source="post: 6555697" data-attributes="member: 6790669">A good AdHoc solution for &quot;massive subdual damage far beyond the target's hit points&quot; (e.g., doing 35 points of subdual damage to someone with 6 hit points) would be to simply require a saving throw. Use the same DC as Coup De Grace. Success = he's knocked out (i.e., his body somehow managed to endure the trauma.) Failure = he dies. The reason? Think about it this way: a big, tough, brawny boxer crowns another big, tough, brawny boxer on the head and knocks him out... ok, seems reasonable. But if that same boxer crowns a 12-year old stable boy with the same amount of force? You do the math.It may sound harsh, but the harshness really comes from the player's inconsiderate attitude. Braining a kid just to get him out of the way? REALLY?If you can sneak UP on someone, you can sneak PAST someone.The problem here is, people don't stop to think about the consequences of their actions. There is more to roleplaying than giving your character a few quirky traits, a colorful wardrobe, and an accent. Very few people treat these situations with the seriousness that they truly require.What would you do in real life, if you were trying to get past a kid like that? Unless you're a mafia hit man with no moral compass, chances are, you'd try your best not to hurt him.If I were the DM in this case, that stable boy would return as a Solar with 20 Fighter Levels, and force the Rogue to complete a quest of atonement. FOR REAL. No joke. I would NOT let that pass.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tellerian Hawke, post: 6555697, member: 6790669"] A good AdHoc solution for "massive subdual damage far beyond the target's hit points" (e.g., doing 35 points of subdual damage to someone with 6 hit points) would be to simply require a saving throw. Use the same DC as Coup De Grace. Success = he's knocked out (i.e., his body somehow managed to endure the trauma.) Failure = he dies. The reason? Think about it this way: a big, tough, brawny boxer crowns another big, tough, brawny boxer on the head and knocks him out... ok, seems reasonable. But if that same boxer crowns a 12-year old stable boy with the same amount of force? You do the math. It may sound harsh, but the harshness really comes from the player's inconsiderate attitude. Braining a kid just to get him out of the way? REALLY? If you can sneak UP on someone, you can sneak PAST someone. The problem here is, people don't stop to think about the consequences of their actions. There is more to roleplaying than giving your character a few quirky traits, a colorful wardrobe, and an accent. Very few people treat these situations with the seriousness that they truly require. What would you do in real life, if you were trying to get past a kid like that? Unless you're a mafia hit man with no moral compass, chances are, you'd try your best not to hurt him. If I were the DM in this case, that stable boy would return as a Solar with 20 Fighter Levels, and force the Rogue to complete a quest of atonement. FOR REAL. No joke. I would NOT let that pass. [/QUOTE]

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