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<blockquote data-quote="KKDragonLord" data-source="post: 4906650" data-attributes="member: 53721">Well... yeah, some people really can't be forced to like 4e for its simplicity. Usually i say that 4e is a wargame with roleplaying just like 3e was, but the difference is that its honest about it and because of that it focuses on being a great strategy game while allowing complete freedom on the Roleplaying stuff.When&nbsp; that doesn't convince the person to at least give it a try, i stop trying. You could try pointing out that 3e D&amp;D is a lot less realistic than other systems such as Gurps or Rolemaster, and its also full of gaps and holes, probably a lot more than 4e, so its just a matter of getting used to it.4e is also superior in balance and you don't have to tweak your character to be a worthy addition to the party, and you can go just fine without looking up thousands of feats and hundreds of prestige classes in 15 different splatbooks to make your character. (for now)But if you are truly willing to give a reasonable interpretation of the rules in 4e, be prepared to start writing a house rule book with all the tiny changes and reasoning that doing that will take. Start by explaining how sneak attack works on skeletons, zombies, oozes, constructs, elementals, etc...then go on to see mounted combat, aerial combat, illumination rules, stealth, fire powers underwater, knocking people unconcious, forced movement such as: &quot;halfling rogue moves huge dragon with sling stone&quot;the Warlord Class, Healing surges: &quot;near-dead character wounds heal up fully after 6hs rest&quot;, etc...I do believe you have to accept that in 4e the rules take precedence over logic and dont always make sense in order to enjoy this game. Thats why i try making people accept that its board wargame with roleplaying and if they don't like streamlined strategy wargaming at its finest, they should play storyteller or gurps or rolemaster, (all good systems too).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="KKDragonLord, post: 4906650, member: 53721"] Well... yeah, some people really can't be forced to like 4e for its simplicity. Usually i say that 4e is a wargame with roleplaying just like 3e was, but the difference is that its honest about it and because of that it focuses on being a great strategy game while allowing complete freedom on the Roleplaying stuff. When that doesn't convince the person to at least give it a try, i stop trying. You could try pointing out that 3e D&D is a lot less realistic than other systems such as Gurps or Rolemaster, and its also full of gaps and holes, probably a lot more than 4e, so its just a matter of getting used to it. 4e is also superior in balance and you don't have to tweak your character to be a worthy addition to the party, and you can go just fine without looking up thousands of feats and hundreds of prestige classes in 15 different splatbooks to make your character. (for now) But if you are truly willing to give a reasonable interpretation of the rules in 4e, be prepared to start writing a house rule book with all the tiny changes and reasoning that doing that will take. Start by explaining how sneak attack works on skeletons, zombies, oozes, constructs, elementals, etc... then go on to see mounted combat, aerial combat, illumination rules, stealth, fire powers underwater, knocking people unconcious, forced movement such as: "halfling rogue moves huge dragon with sling stone" the Warlord Class, Healing surges: "near-dead character wounds heal up fully after 6hs rest", etc... I do believe you have to accept that in 4e the rules take precedence over logic and dont always make sense in order to enjoy this game. Thats why i try making people accept that its board wargame with roleplaying and if they don't like streamlined strategy wargaming at its finest, they should play storyteller or gurps or rolemaster, (all good systems too). [/QUOTE]

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