Knowledge (Warfare) - Discussion?

Water Bob

Adventurer
Hello fellow game obsess-ees!

I've got something that I want to put up for discussion as I think about it for my game. I'm always interested in the thoughts of other gamers and GMs.

We play the Conan RPG, which is based on (and not exactly like) 3.5 d20. This means that there is not a lot of sorcery in the game world--so, I'm not really interested in responses that consider that angle. But, from a purely melee combat point of view, maybe you can help me think about this.

Tonight, I rolled up a new character for the campaign with a new player coming into the game. The player is a long-time roleplayer with d20 3.5 experience from long ago, but he's never played our game--Mongoose's Conan RPG.

He rolled up a Soldier. This class is akin (though quite different than) the D&D Fighter (warrior, whatever).

One of the class skills for this class is Knowledge (Warfare).

And, the player asked me, "How can I use it in a game?"





Well, it's never come up in any of my Conan games. In fact, this being my second Conan campaign, I've never had anyone play a Soldier character before. I was not prepared for the question. I answered that the skill would be used for questions that pop up in the game about Warfare. Obviously, right?

He wanted to know if there were any tangible benefits to make a Knowledge (Warfare) check. I told him no, but I also told him to let me think on this a bit.

Remember, my game doesn't have a lot of sorcery/magic. That means there's no Bless Spells, no Protection From Evil Spells, no Armor spells, and so on. But, what the game does have is more mundane uses for skills that can sometimes translate into a tangible benefit in the game. For example, if a character makes a Craft check and uses a whetstone, then the character can increase his Critical Threat range with the weapon by one up until his first successful attack.

Something I've added to the game, thinking that an Army travels on its stomach, is a Profession (Cooking) check. A character must spend coin on spices and carry cooking utensils, but if he makes his check when he makes the meal, all who eat it can get a +1 modifier to any single attack, save, or skill check for the next 4 hours. It's a simple +1 morale modifier used on only one throw--a simple thing--but is fun in our group.




Along the same lines, I'm wondering about Knowledge (Warfare). Now, the skill is used in one of the supplementary books that focuses on large scale battles and Mercenaries. The skill is mainly used to identify monsters. And, that's about it.





I am knocking around the idea of making the skill kind of a Tactics skill where the character can make a check, say, once per combat, where, if successful, a +1 modifier is available in a pool for any allied character within earshot to use. It would be a single +1 modifier, "given" to a single character, anytime during the combat (as long as the Soldier is conscious and can give such commands), and the modifier can be used on any skill check, attack, or save made by the character who receives it. Or, the Soldier can use it himself.

I'm thinking the check itself would be a Standard Action. The Soldier has to take in the battlefield, think, and bark the command.



What are your thoughts on that?

Think it's a good idea?

Or, should I leave the skill alone?
 

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What sort of DC are you talking about? Shouldn't the skill also get better with ranks? So I could picture a sliding scale. Perhaps a +1 bonus if you get a DC 15, +2 if you get a 25, etc. But is that worth a standard action?

Fate has a Tactics skill that applies aspects to the battlefield (even though the skill makes the aspect, it's really taking advantage of an aspect already there; an officer might let his troops take advantage of smoke for stealth, etc) but that's a lot more free-form than d20.
 

Seems to me like you could treat the skill similarly to knowledge (local) or knowledge (nobility). In other words, warfare is such a broad subject that it's reasonable that the skill doesn't confer a tangible benefit in every martial situation, especially if the PC's adventures take him to far flung and unfamiliar locales. On the other hand, the skill might grant him insight into the tactics of local or regional forces (especially if there has recently been or is currently a war going on).

So, the skill might provide circumstance bonuses to avoiding military patrols (those involved in scouting or guarding), fighting certain types of soldiers (based on knowledge of the enemy's weapons training), and so on.

I like the idea you suggest, that the PC with this skill can impart situational tactical advice to his companions. That in itself seems like a great use of the skill, so long as the PC's player doesn't have to quantify it with the kind of explicit detail that only a real veteran of combat would be able to provide!
 

I would allow the player to use it to attempt to predict what his opponents are going to do within the next few rounds. This doesn't grant any sort of numerical advantage, but having an idea of what the opponents are planning can help the player characters to make their own plans.
 

Knowledge checks are based around what you know about a particular topic, as applicable to the situation at hand. Given that, I'd say that Knowledge (warfare) would cover the various organizational, strategic, and tactical aspects of group-based combat, whether at the party-skirmish size all the way up to marching legions of troops around.

As such, making a check for it should give insight into things like how you can use the terrain to your advantage, how to coordinate tactics amongst your party for the greatest effect, what ambush spots seem likely and how to counter them, etc.

Essentially, this would be the skill that Sherlock Holmes would use if he had been a military general, rather than a consulting detective.
 

The Conan stories occasionally have him as a leader of men (from squad, to army, to nation) and thus it would be a great skill for dicing out larger encounter outcomes. Did Mongoose make any sort of abstract mass combat system? If not, I have found that this has been a major shortfall D&D has rarely tried to address. Old D&D had War Machine - both crunchy and abstract - so it was at least in the ballpark. I think it was Cry Havoc (Malhavoc Games?) that did something here - but I remember it seemed to use a fig as a unit, and again a decent amount of math. Battlesystem has always been more of a wargame than a high level game where this skill would be useful.

(what brought this to my mind is that Savage Worlds has a mass combat system and uses this equivalent skill for its resolution. We just used this the other night in a Game of Thrones-like Ptolus game to resolve a battle between our house and another house - we kicked their tail!)
 
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Knowledge (warfare) would cover the various organizational, strategic, and tactical aspects of group-based combat, whether at the party-skirmish size all the way up to marching legions of troops around.

As such, making a check for it should give insight into things like how you can use the terrain to your advantage, how to coordinate tactics amongst your party for the greatest effect, what ambush spots seem likely and how to counter them, etc.
I agree with the first part here, but let's include SeveredHead's observation: it gets better with ranks. So a rank 1 Know (warfare) might know some individual tactics, while a rank 5 might know about platoon tactics.

The check sounds like a DM-Help-Me check. Succeed on your check, and the DM tells you what to do to get some bonuses in battle (which terrain to use, ambush spots, etc.).

Stormwrack used Profession (Sailor) as a sort of captain's combat roll. Your ship would do better in naval battle as you succeeded on these checks. This makes Know (warfare) a sort of commander's combat roll for units.

The Miniatures Handbook introduced (?) leader auras. You could use Know (warfare) to create one of these, imparting a small but helpful bonus to friendly soldiers around you who can hear your commands...or about 30 feet.
 

I'd go with the Tactics roll, adding a +1 bonus to nearby allies in combat as the PC calls out commands "go for the flank" sort of thing. Maybe the higher the roll vs dc the more people can be commanded (get the bonus) so DC 15 give 1 ally a +1 bonus, DC 20 give 2 allies a +1 bonus each etc - ie you're simulating a Soldier commanding his troops
 
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I like the ideas. I still haven't decided on this. I don't want to turn it into something that every player gets and tries to max out for the benefit.

Maybe I should limit it a bit by class. The Conan RPG equivalent of a Fighter is the Soldier class. I could allow the function of the skill open to only Soldiers. That way, Scholars and Barbarians and Thieves are not all capable of doing it.
 

In my 3.5 game, I had a player who wanted a Ranger that was more of a scout, and less of a "fighter/druid with favored enemies" feel.

As part of that, I came with a new skill:
Knowledge (Military Intelligence): This skill involves turning observations into tactical military intelligence. From observing a military unit, can estimate Order of Battle (size, role, quality, and allegiance). Can attempt to estimate the likely effects of terrain or weather on tactics and movement of military units. Can attempt estimate the sentiment (“hearts & minds”) and morale of military units and civilian villages.
o Synergies: Knowledge (History): +2 to all uses of Knowledge (MI)
o Knowledge (Geography): +2 to attempts to estimate terrain effects
o Knowledge (Nature): +2 to attempts to estimate weather effects
o Knowledge (Nobility & Royalty): +2 to identify units by heraldry
o Gather Information: +2 to attempts to estimate sentiment and morale
o Also, Knowledge (MI) provides +2 to Knowledge (History) for military history
 

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