Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Kobayashi Maru: Should the fate of the character always be in the player's hands? POLL
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Puddles" data-source="post: 8259142" data-attributes="member: 7026093"><p>I'm not sure the analogy between player-death and the Kobayashi Maru is the best. For me the Kobayshi Maru is more about encounter design than the minute-by-minute trading of blows, and I think players should always have the chance to turn an unwinnable scenario into a winnable one. This is the Matt Coville "<em>change the conditions of the test</em>" adage, and it's the great joy of D&D as a DM to have your players come up with a crazy plan and then pull it off despite the odds.</p><p></p><p>When it comes to player death, I think the threat of it is the necessary spice to make action compelling. Having the threat of death always being a possibility is what I love about the game, and while it will occasionally create an unsatisfying conclusion as mentioned in your OP, I think it's important to remember that those are far and few between, rather than the norm.</p><p></p><p>For me the biggest lesson for a DM is putting too much weight on a single or few dice rolls. This is why I dislike "Save vs Death" mechanics because too much is riding on that one dice roll. In my opinion, the threat of death should always be present but it should take a string of bad luck to cause it. This is to not only reduce the odds of it happening but also to foreshadow it narratively to the players. It's the reason why I think the Death Saves mechanic is great because, not only is it fairly unlikely, a player has had multiple rounds in combat to come to terms that their character might not survive this fight before it happens.</p><p></p><p>So I would say a good DM is one that makes sure no single dice roll ever becomes too powerful, or at least, no single dice roll can be the detriment of the entire team. Instead the DM should put as many dice rolls as possible between the character and death, but to make sure this doesn't feel contrived, you need to put in the work during encounter design. For me, what I like to do is just populate my encounters with loads of hooks and levers for my players to draw upon when things start getting desperate. This means once the string of bad luck begins, once the players' plans are thwarted more and more by the dice, they still have lots of things to try, lots of <strong>agency</strong>, lots of ways to pull off a James T. Kirk in the Kobayashi Maru and <strong><em>change the conditions of the test</em></strong>.</p><p></p><p><strong>(Edit:</strong> Cleaned up the typos and removed my presumption in the 3rd paragraph that stated everyone dislikes 'save vs death' mechanics, it's of course just my opinion.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Puddles, post: 8259142, member: 7026093"] I'm not sure the analogy between player-death and the Kobayashi Maru is the best. For me the Kobayshi Maru is more about encounter design than the minute-by-minute trading of blows, and I think players should always have the chance to turn an unwinnable scenario into a winnable one. This is the Matt Coville "[I]change the conditions of the test[/I]" adage, and it's the great joy of D&D as a DM to have your players come up with a crazy plan and then pull it off despite the odds. When it comes to player death, I think the threat of it is the necessary spice to make action compelling. Having the threat of death always being a possibility is what I love about the game, and while it will occasionally create an unsatisfying conclusion as mentioned in your OP, I think it's important to remember that those are far and few between, rather than the norm. For me the biggest lesson for a DM is putting too much weight on a single or few dice rolls. This is why I dislike "Save vs Death" mechanics because too much is riding on that one dice roll. In my opinion, the threat of death should always be present but it should take a string of bad luck to cause it. This is to not only reduce the odds of it happening but also to foreshadow it narratively to the players. It's the reason why I think the Death Saves mechanic is great because, not only is it fairly unlikely, a player has had multiple rounds in combat to come to terms that their character might not survive this fight before it happens. So I would say a good DM is one that makes sure no single dice roll ever becomes too powerful, or at least, no single dice roll can be the detriment of the entire team. Instead the DM should put as many dice rolls as possible between the character and death, but to make sure this doesn't feel contrived, you need to put in the work during encounter design. For me, what I like to do is just populate my encounters with loads of hooks and levers for my players to draw upon when things start getting desperate. This means once the string of bad luck begins, once the players' plans are thwarted more and more by the dice, they still have lots of things to try, lots of [B]agency[/B], lots of ways to pull off a James T. Kirk in the Kobayashi Maru and [B][I]change the conditions of the test[/I][/B]. [B](Edit:[/B] Cleaned up the typos and removed my presumption in the 3rd paragraph that stated everyone dislikes 'save vs death' mechanics, it's of course just my opinion.) [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Kobayashi Maru: Should the fate of the character always be in the player's hands? POLL
Top