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Kobolds Are Supposed To Be Pathetic Combatants
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<blockquote data-quote="Tovec" data-source="post: 5932349" data-attributes="member: 95493"><p>It was an open question, not solely one for game designers. So thank you for the answer.</p><p></p><p>However, at least in 3e kobolds had 4 HP. Which would immediately render the reaper ability a non-KO ability at least on the first swing. They clearly didn't just have 2 HP as a carryover, as in 4e they had 1 HP (as a minion) and in 3e they had 4 HP. Oh, a non-minion (at level 1) had 27 HP so rather a little more than 2 I would say.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The problem is that their ONLY solution is to cut the themes. I am told the cut the themes if I don't like an aspect of a single theme. I am told to cut the themes if I want an old school play. This solution only serves to handicap my players, nothing more. It doesn't solve the issue of kobolds having 2 HP and being able to be defeated by a strong breeze.</p><p></p><p>Modularity <em>may</em> fix the problem, but I am not alone in thinking that modularity needs to be built at the beginning not tacked on at the end. Beyond that, modularity doesn't solve this problem. Giving me other tools to use is what modularity fixes. Modularity will allow me to not have to use the reaper ability, or allow me to replace the Healer theme. It doesn't change the HP structure of all creatures in the game. Even if a new HP system is introduced, such as one relating to wound points or similar, the issue will still exist because it is expected that you convert the existing material over to the "WP" system, so what is silly in one system will remain silly in another.</p><p></p><p>Modularity is a toolbox, it isn't a cure.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I did thank you. I just don't expect anything to change. They may get 3 HP or even 4 but that won't solve the underlying problem.</p><p></p><p></p><p>A. It impacts more than just creatures with less than 3 HP. It works on everyone, regardless of HP. It only insta-kills people with 3 or less.</p><p>B. It insta-kills people with 3 or less HP. ON A MISS.</p><p>C. At least magic missile says it can't miss. The reaper ability says no such thing. Ergo, the MM ability has a REASON it works that way, the reaper ability does not.</p><p>D. Yes "it is magic" is a viable defense for such things.</p><p>E. I dislike MM too, in case you are wondering, for the exact same reason. (In my potential 5e games I would make it a 1st or maybe even 2nd level spell. Something that costs something to cast, instead of free 24/7. But this isn't about MM.)</p><p></p><p></p><p>The mage gets magic missile, which represents the mage's innate ability to conjur "force" to leap from their finger tips and strike an opponent. It does not miss and has a set effect. It does 1d4+1, not the mages attack stat. On average the missile is doing less than the fighter too. Also, it has an explanation, limitations, can be countered and is codified. On the other hand, the reaper ability is none of these things. It can't be countered as long as the fighter could hit but misses. It does MORE damage (on average) than the missile and it does it to all targets, so long as he misses.</p><p></p><p></p><p>See above. They had 4HP in 3e and 27 in 4e, so I fail to see exactly what your point is. I don't have access to earlier editions for their HP stats but I would guess that PCs in those editions had less HP too so it comes out to be more of a wash when (afiak) 5e's HP resemble 3e and 4e more than any other.</p><p></p><p></p><p>For everyone else, except the slayer, a miss is a miss. The slayer misses but the kobold still dies. I don't need real world explanations for that to see it is a flaw.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I can't fault them for being all "troll" to see what we react to. But I honestly doubt they are just doing it to see if people react. I think they see the mechanics as legitimate offerings or things they want to test. That is why, as I said; If there IS a good reason why the fighter can always, reliably do 3 damage to every creature on a miss then let [us] see it.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Based on more than my own experiences alone, I know that when WotC gets an idea in their heads then it is pretty hard to kick it loose. I have submitted my feedback and I am having my friends try the game and do the same. All I wanted to say is that I am significantly not sold on any aspect of the game thus far. I realize I went overlong about why I am unsold but that is presently neither here nor there.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm not saying PCs should have the same HP as kobolds to start. Please quote me where I have said anything like that.</p><p></p><p>What I have said is that 2 HP is too low. That no one should not be able to kill them on min damage. That the slayer does it WITHOUT HITTING at all.</p><p>I have said kobolds SHOULD BE WEAK. I don't know how often I have to keep saying that. They should be. I think that the playtest makes them TOO DAMNED WEAK. So weak in fact that they offer almost no contest to a part of LEVEL ONES. If the enemy isn't threatening at level one then they are never going to be threatening. I see over and over that kobolds aren't threatening enough in large groups, which is when they should be.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Which would at least be a reason for the 2 HP. Validity comes later but this reason can easily be changed as long as there IS a reason.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tovec, post: 5932349, member: 95493"] It was an open question, not solely one for game designers. So thank you for the answer. However, at least in 3e kobolds had 4 HP. Which would immediately render the reaper ability a non-KO ability at least on the first swing. They clearly didn't just have 2 HP as a carryover, as in 4e they had 1 HP (as a minion) and in 3e they had 4 HP. Oh, a non-minion (at level 1) had 27 HP so rather a little more than 2 I would say. The problem is that their ONLY solution is to cut the themes. I am told the cut the themes if I don't like an aspect of a single theme. I am told to cut the themes if I want an old school play. This solution only serves to handicap my players, nothing more. It doesn't solve the issue of kobolds having 2 HP and being able to be defeated by a strong breeze. Modularity [I]may[/I] fix the problem, but I am not alone in thinking that modularity needs to be built at the beginning not tacked on at the end. Beyond that, modularity doesn't solve this problem. Giving me other tools to use is what modularity fixes. Modularity will allow me to not have to use the reaper ability, or allow me to replace the Healer theme. It doesn't change the HP structure of all creatures in the game. Even if a new HP system is introduced, such as one relating to wound points or similar, the issue will still exist because it is expected that you convert the existing material over to the "WP" system, so what is silly in one system will remain silly in another. Modularity is a toolbox, it isn't a cure. I did thank you. I just don't expect anything to change. They may get 3 HP or even 4 but that won't solve the underlying problem. A. It impacts more than just creatures with less than 3 HP. It works on everyone, regardless of HP. It only insta-kills people with 3 or less. B. It insta-kills people with 3 or less HP. ON A MISS. C. At least magic missile says it can't miss. The reaper ability says no such thing. Ergo, the MM ability has a REASON it works that way, the reaper ability does not. D. Yes "it is magic" is a viable defense for such things. E. I dislike MM too, in case you are wondering, for the exact same reason. (In my potential 5e games I would make it a 1st or maybe even 2nd level spell. Something that costs something to cast, instead of free 24/7. But this isn't about MM.) The mage gets magic missile, which represents the mage's innate ability to conjur "force" to leap from their finger tips and strike an opponent. It does not miss and has a set effect. It does 1d4+1, not the mages attack stat. On average the missile is doing less than the fighter too. Also, it has an explanation, limitations, can be countered and is codified. On the other hand, the reaper ability is none of these things. It can't be countered as long as the fighter could hit but misses. It does MORE damage (on average) than the missile and it does it to all targets, so long as he misses. See above. They had 4HP in 3e and 27 in 4e, so I fail to see exactly what your point is. I don't have access to earlier editions for their HP stats but I would guess that PCs in those editions had less HP too so it comes out to be more of a wash when (afiak) 5e's HP resemble 3e and 4e more than any other. For everyone else, except the slayer, a miss is a miss. The slayer misses but the kobold still dies. I don't need real world explanations for that to see it is a flaw. I can't fault them for being all "troll" to see what we react to. But I honestly doubt they are just doing it to see if people react. I think they see the mechanics as legitimate offerings or things they want to test. That is why, as I said; If there IS a good reason why the fighter can always, reliably do 3 damage to every creature on a miss then let [us] see it. Based on more than my own experiences alone, I know that when WotC gets an idea in their heads then it is pretty hard to kick it loose. I have submitted my feedback and I am having my friends try the game and do the same. All I wanted to say is that I am significantly not sold on any aspect of the game thus far. I realize I went overlong about why I am unsold but that is presently neither here nor there. I'm not saying PCs should have the same HP as kobolds to start. Please quote me where I have said anything like that. What I have said is that 2 HP is too low. That no one should not be able to kill them on min damage. That the slayer does it WITHOUT HITTING at all. I have said kobolds SHOULD BE WEAK. I don't know how often I have to keep saying that. They should be. I think that the playtest makes them TOO DAMNED WEAK. So weak in fact that they offer almost no contest to a part of LEVEL ONES. If the enemy isn't threatening at level one then they are never going to be threatening. I see over and over that kobolds aren't threatening enough in large groups, which is when they should be. Which would at least be a reason for the 2 HP. Validity comes later but this reason can easily be changed as long as there IS a reason. [/QUOTE]
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