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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Goobermunch" data-source="post: 4247433" data-attributes="member: 10516">I'd just like to say that I really appreciate your responses to 4e, Lizard.  I have been playtesting for quite a while, and really like the system.  But I've also been playing in a group of dedicated roleplayers with a phenomenal DM (Keith Baker).It's been very nice to get an unbiased outside view.  You're fast becoming a touchstone for me to determine whether my enjoyment of the game is a result of the people I'm with or the system.  So far, I think it is a combination of the two.  But it is worth mentioning that I think a number of your group's criticisms will be addressed once the full ruleset becomes available.  I don't know whether the way in which they are addressed will fit with your group's playstyle, but there is still substantial material to look forward to.Hope you guys give it another try with the full rules.Oh, and as far as sleep is concerned, there are some awsome synergies with a warlock power that will help that one be more useful.  We've had at least one game where the slow effect was more important than the possible unconsciousness.--G</blockquote>