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Krynn's Free Feats: setting-specific or the future of the game?
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<blockquote data-quote="Jaeger" data-source="post: 8625966" data-attributes="member: 27996"><p>Except that by definition they are not.</p><p></p><p>It's like playing a game of "chess" where you use the board and pieces but you are outright ignoring any rule you want during play, and still calling it "chess".</p><p></p><p>You might be using the chess board and pieces, but by any objective measure you were not playing a real game of chess.</p><p></p><p>They may call what they are doing "playing D&D", and say how much fun it is for them.</p><p></p><p>I will never tell someone that they are not having fun. They may be having an outright blast. Good for them.</p><p></p><p>But when you are no longer playing the game as intended; you are literally not playing the same game as people that are.</p><p></p><p>They may claim that it the same thing, but they are just using its trappings to wrap their new apple in the peel of the orange they started with.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is legit. However...</p><p></p><p>The problem is that many would rather use the trappings of the #1 rpg and change the paradigm of play by just ignoring rules/ dice results during the game, rather than really outline what type of play experience they are after so useful suggestions can be made of RPG's or storygames to suit.</p><p></p><p>Poster1: "I don't want PC death due to some random dice roll in combat."</p><p></p><p>Poster2: " Well Maybe you might be better served by another RPG other than D&D, because it is literally not designed for that paradigm of play; maybe a storygame or other rules lite RPG?"</p><p></p><p>But instead of: "What would you suggest then?" The immediate and all too predictable reply goes something like:</p><p></p><p>Poster1: "But we play D&D! Your one true wayism is hating my fun!"</p><p></p><p>And so one gets the experience of stating a neutral fact, and being responded to as if there is an underlying, unspoken antagonism in one's statement.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I quoted posters where they explicitly said that they were/would ignore dice results for purely <em>narrative/story</em> based reasons.</p><p></p><p>And in other threads where game lethality has come up, similar posts about ignoring mechanical results are posted regularly.</p><p></p><p>No one was taken out of context.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Why should the surviving PC's players have to stop playing their characters?</p><p></p><p>Why would you make them do that? My players would revolt.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Why would I stop the game when there is no justifiable reason to do so?</p><p></p><p>The game flows from the choices of the players make with their PC's. I'm supposed to say: "Stop dudes, seems you want to be pirates now... so let's start over!"</p><p></p><p>My players: "Why? What's wrong with you?"</p><p></p><p>Why would I take away player agency like that? That's just silly.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No it's not. That's not what a story is at all.</p><p></p><p>No path is planned out. Once the PC's begin interacting with the game world they can do anything they want to.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Adventure hooks that they players may or may not react to is a <em>story line</em>?</p><p></p><p>Describing examples of possible in-game events that <em>might</em> unfold are examples of story lines?</p><p></p><p>Those are not story lines.</p><p></p><p>There is no 'story line' because the whole point of such a set up is that <em>I don't know what the PC's will do next, or which direction they will decide to go.</em></p><p></p><p>Story line <em>noun</em></p><p>Definition of story line:</p><p>- <em>The plot of a story or drama</em></p><p></p><p>There is no 'Plot' or 'narrative', because <em>nothing is prewritten</em>. No one knows what will happen until things unfold in the game during play.</p><p></p><p>You are using the word 'storyline' wrong. It is making your counterargument incomprehensible.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jaeger, post: 8625966, member: 27996"] Except that by definition they are not. It's like playing a game of "chess" where you use the board and pieces but you are outright ignoring any rule you want during play, and still calling it "chess". You might be using the chess board and pieces, but by any objective measure you were not playing a real game of chess. They may call what they are doing "playing D&D", and say how much fun it is for them. I will never tell someone that they are not having fun. They may be having an outright blast. Good for them. But when you are no longer playing the game as intended; you are literally not playing the same game as people that are. They may claim that it the same thing, but they are just using its trappings to wrap their new apple in the peel of the orange they started with. This is legit. However... The problem is that many would rather use the trappings of the #1 rpg and change the paradigm of play by just ignoring rules/ dice results during the game, rather than really outline what type of play experience they are after so useful suggestions can be made of RPG's or storygames to suit. Poster1: "I don't want PC death due to some random dice roll in combat." Poster2: " Well Maybe you might be better served by another RPG other than D&D, because it is literally not designed for that paradigm of play; maybe a storygame or other rules lite RPG?" But instead of: "What would you suggest then?" The immediate and all too predictable reply goes something like: Poster1: "But we play D&D! Your one true wayism is hating my fun!" And so one gets the experience of stating a neutral fact, and being responded to as if there is an underlying, unspoken antagonism in one's statement. I quoted posters where they explicitly said that they were/would ignore dice results for purely [I]narrative/story[/I] based reasons. And in other threads where game lethality has come up, similar posts about ignoring mechanical results are posted regularly. No one was taken out of context. Why should the surviving PC's players have to stop playing their characters? Why would you make them do that? My players would revolt. Why would I stop the game when there is no justifiable reason to do so? The game flows from the choices of the players make with their PC's. I'm supposed to say: "Stop dudes, seems you want to be pirates now... so let's start over!" My players: "Why? What's wrong with you?" Why would I take away player agency like that? That's just silly. No it's not. That's not what a story is at all. No path is planned out. Once the PC's begin interacting with the game world they can do anything they want to. Adventure hooks that they players may or may not react to is a [I]story line[/I]? Describing examples of possible in-game events that [I]might[/I] unfold are examples of story lines? Those are not story lines. There is no 'story line' because the whole point of such a set up is that [I]I don't know what the PC's will do next, or which direction they will decide to go.[/I] Story line [I]noun[/I] Definition of story line: - [I]The plot of a story or drama[/I] There is no 'Plot' or 'narrative', because [I]nothing is prewritten[/I]. No one knows what will happen until things unfold in the game during play. You are using the word 'storyline' wrong. It is making your counterargument incomprehensible. [/QUOTE]
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