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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 8625994" data-attributes="member: 67338">I mean isn't EVERY RPG just useing the rules you want and ignoring or changing the ones you don't? what definition of D&D do you have that discounts all homebrew?okay dude... you have a stragne group... first they lose half the players then they are trying too find a new direction but the mear IDEA of just making new character offends them?!?!to make new ones to start a new game and have fun?do they often revolt at the end of one campaign and begining of another? have you only ever run 1 campaign sence you started?the adventure of 3-5 player characters where they make choices and those choices effect the world and they enjoythemselves... that ISN'T a story? what is a story then?yes that is everygame I play and run too... that is an RPG and they still make up stories.yes.... the totality of the chosen and unchosen hooks form togather into a storyline...ex: Antra fought his way out of the underdark and found a fellow wizard who both nursed him back to health and helped him into the above world... the mage's daughter was part of an adventureing group (really kids who WANTED to adventure) and he joined them. He brought up the treasure hoard he knew of, but before they did that they decided to go to the mountains and fight the ghoul lord. on the way to the ghoul lords 2nd layer they found a map to a secrete anctiant site with lost lore... they stopped heading toward the 2nd part of the ghoul king and went in search of this site... but it was a trap set by a group of magic easting alternate world mindflayers... during that fight when 1 of the characters died the group got some good xp and treasure... but the brother of the dead character wanted to bury him at home... so the whole group went to there town. on the way they met a monk with a secrete and they found out he was FROM the alternaite world the mindflayers were and planned to use that knowladge to go back and avenge there fallen brother... but first they got side tracked by a gang war in the home town. During that gang war the monk died...and so too did the orginal mage's daughter. the group decided that was it. There was no story forward without the monk FROM the alt world, no one cared about the ghoul lord anymore and down 2 of the orginal 5 characters (4 only wanted exceitment and now see how deadly that is, and 1 antra was really in this to find a new home and he had...with them) so we retired and started a new game,the story was every choice made and every adventure gone on, and every hook used or not. describing them, no, useing them (by taking them or ignoreing them) is. yes they arenot knowing what coomes NEXT doesn't make something not a storyby that train of thought Game of Thrones wasn't a story becuse everyone watching didn't know what would come next.nothing says PREwritten though... you added that.becuse there IS no counter to my argument that the game makes a story. the story will have a begining, a middle and an end. It might be an end at a great heroic retirement. It might be an end at a TPK. it might end someway between those. You more likely then not will not know the middle until you are well past it (maybe even not knowing where the middle WAS before you end).NOBODY is prewriting a story and forceing there players to watch the show. (atleast no one here)NOBODY is suggesting (that I have seen) that my warlock could not have died a dozen different ways at a dozen different times. The game with my warlock had a (mostly) good ending. It had a GREAT story... a few years ago  (more then I want to admit) my Hobgoblin Warblade had a JUNK ending... He watched his two closest friends die, got turned into a frog just to force himself back... but not before the thing they were fighting got away with the ring they were all after. He was ready to push on for revenge, but the only other 2 living members of his group were not. that was an annoying ending. BUT IT WAS AN ENDING. what i didn;t do was throw a fit or 'revolt' as you put it becuse a game ended. I sighed and drew up my next character (a psion I think if I have the order of campaigns right)</blockquote>

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