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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AngelBob" data-source="post: 2550845" data-attributes="member: 36312">Allo all!  First time poster, long time lurker!So, I am intrigued as to the Kyton's (Chain Devil) "Dancing Chains" ability.  It is worded as so from the SRD 3.5."Dancing Chains (Su): A chain devil’s most awesome attack is its ability to control up to four chains within 20 feet as a standard action, making the chains dance or move as it wishes. In addition, a chain devil can increase these chains’ length by up to 15 feet and cause them to sprout razor-edged barbs. These chains attack as effectively as the devil itself. If a chain is in another creature’s possession, the creature can attempt a DC 15 Will save to break the chain devil’s power over that chain. If the save is successful, the kyton cannot attempt to control that particular chain again for 24 hours or until the chain leaves the creature’s possession. The save DC is Charisma-based.A chain devil can climb chains it controls at its normal speed without making Climb checks."Now, after a quick forum search here I was able to discern that essentially a Kyton is better off using it's "Dancing Chains" ability  to attack (Assumed with chains around his person if not littered all over the place) rather than use his own "natural weapon" chain attacks of which it only gets 2, as these 4 "dancing chains" each attack as effectively as the Kyton. As well, controlling these chains is only a standard action as opposed to the full attack action neccesary to get both his "natural" chain attacks.However, beyond the pure "fighting" aspect of the Kyton, these "dancing chains" have remarkably little text describing their limitations.The Kyton is described at being able to control chains a maximum of 20 feet away.  However, can these chains "whip" ot of the 2 foot radius, as long as some portion of the chain resides withen the 20 foot radius for the Kyton to mentally "hold"?As well, can these dancing chains be flung great distances, say to wrap around a rafter some 40 feet above?  Of course, he would be unable to make it "dance" to grip the object that far away, but wat skill could he use to treat these chains like grappling hooks?And more importantly is that last line, that "A chain devil can climb chains it controls at its normal speed without making Climb checks." I find that this opens a whole crate of possibilities.  Now, all chains around the Kyton can be made to "move or dance", seemingly made to whip about, trip, bind, whatever without being touched by the kyton at all.  However, must these chains touch the ground?  Or can a Kyton use chains to lift itself of the ground, as all of the chains in a 20 foot bubble are being lifted by his power.  Can the Kyton essentially climb-fly at his normal speed?And lets say even if he can't, whats to prevent the Kyton from hoisting himself up with one of his chains, 10ft off the floor, and start ripping into others from a safe distance with the rest of his chains?  Or if in danger, remove himself from melee combat entirely by hoisting himself 20 ft. off the ground?I'm sure you can all see by now how many utilities such a monster has.  And as a PC character (As per the rules in the "Planar Handbook"), especially in a campaign set around Air Ship travel as this campaign will be ("I say your grappling hoks dont work, I say they STRANGLE YOU!!!) how abusive such a open-ended power might become.Penny for your thoughts?</blockquote>

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