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L&L 3/05 - Save or Die!
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<blockquote data-quote="Blackwarder" data-source="post: 5840634" data-attributes="member: 6688285"><p>I like save-or-die effects against PC and dislike it in the hands of PC both as a DM and as a player.</p><p></p><p>As a player I dislike it because it makes spell casters too powerfull compared to other classes while having some save or die effects thrown once in a while makes for an extremely exciting game.</p><p></p><p>I like the basic idea in the L&L article (which I think is written by mike mearls IMO) it got potential, especially the thing about fixed HP rates instead of percentile rates like bloodied values but I also share the concern that looking at it from a player POV it can problematic for several reasons: by tying it to fixed HP rates the player will need to know the HP rate of the enemy which, IMO, break immersion. It shouldn't be a problem for a skilled DM with player who know how to ask him the right questions but for new players and DM who don't have some body to teach them the arcane methods of successfully DMing it could boil to boring excel spreadsheets experience. Another potential problem is power creep where with the right combination of feats and skills a PC could make the spell an automatic hit, it's not a problem when it happens once in a blue moon after a lot of preparations but if it become routine it will become boring and might encourage the ten minute work day problem.</p><p></p><p>In the end, I think that just like a lot of other things this could be solve with enough of solid DMing advice rather than more rules, considering that SoD effect were disliked because they were prone to get abused by both players and DMs, if they make it into 5e the best method to stop that would be some solid advices in the DMG.</p><p></p><p>Warder</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Blackwarder, post: 5840634, member: 6688285"] I like save-or-die effects against PC and dislike it in the hands of PC both as a DM and as a player. As a player I dislike it because it makes spell casters too powerfull compared to other classes while having some save or die effects thrown once in a while makes for an extremely exciting game. I like the basic idea in the L&L article (which I think is written by mike mearls IMO) it got potential, especially the thing about fixed HP rates instead of percentile rates like bloodied values but I also share the concern that looking at it from a player POV it can problematic for several reasons: by tying it to fixed HP rates the player will need to know the HP rate of the enemy which, IMO, break immersion. It shouldn't be a problem for a skilled DM with player who know how to ask him the right questions but for new players and DM who don't have some body to teach them the arcane methods of successfully DMing it could boil to boring excel spreadsheets experience. Another potential problem is power creep where with the right combination of feats and skills a PC could make the spell an automatic hit, it's not a problem when it happens once in a blue moon after a lot of preparations but if it become routine it will become boring and might encourage the ten minute work day problem. In the end, I think that just like a lot of other things this could be solve with enough of solid DMing advice rather than more rules, considering that SoD effect were disliked because they were prone to get abused by both players and DMs, if they make it into 5e the best method to stop that would be some solid advices in the DMG. Warder [/QUOTE]
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