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<blockquote data-quote="Dausuul" data-source="post: 5841086" data-attributes="member: 58197"><p>I play 4E and have since it was released. Its superior balance, mechanical support for the DM, and expansion of options for non-casters are valuable enough to me that I put up with the things I don't like about it, including its treatment of hit points. For other people, however, that equation balances out differently.</p><p></p><p>Everything I've seen indicates that Pathfinder and 4E players can come together on the hit points issue, but <em>only</em> if each side acknowledges the validity of the other's concerns. For Pathfinder fans, that means acknowledging that 4E fans have a valid complaint about having to rely on divine magic/healsticks, and about the lack of a way to recover resources between fights. For 4E fans, that means acknowledging that Pathfinder fans also have a valid complaint about the narrative not matching the terms used ("attack," "hit," "damage," "heal," "bloodied," etc.) and about the lack of lasting consequences for serious injuries.</p><p></p><p>There are quite a number of ways a system could address all of these concerns and work for everybody. A wounds/vitality system is one approach that's seen a lot of interest on ENWorld, and has the benefit of being relatively easy to "modularize." I can think of others. But if each side sticks its fingers in its ears and insists that the solution is for the other side to just give in, yeah, you're not going to see an agreement there.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dausuul, post: 5841086, member: 58197"] I play 4E and have since it was released. Its superior balance, mechanical support for the DM, and expansion of options for non-casters are valuable enough to me that I put up with the things I don't like about it, including its treatment of hit points. For other people, however, that equation balances out differently. Everything I've seen indicates that Pathfinder and 4E players can come together on the hit points issue, but [I]only[/I] if each side acknowledges the validity of the other's concerns. For Pathfinder fans, that means acknowledging that 4E fans have a valid complaint about having to rely on divine magic/healsticks, and about the lack of a way to recover resources between fights. For 4E fans, that means acknowledging that Pathfinder fans also have a valid complaint about the narrative not matching the terms used ("attack," "hit," "damage," "heal," "bloodied," etc.) and about the lack of lasting consequences for serious injuries. There are quite a number of ways a system could address all of these concerns and work for everybody. A wounds/vitality system is one approach that's seen a lot of interest on ENWorld, and has the benefit of being relatively easy to "modularize." I can think of others. But if each side sticks its fingers in its ears and insists that the solution is for the other side to just give in, yeah, you're not going to see an agreement there. [/QUOTE]
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