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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 5841711" data-attributes="member: 2067">There's a continuum, of course. You can re-fluff, re-jigger, re-orient, and re-mechanize different elements in different ways. But the question has to be: to what end?What is the play benefit of entirely removing SoD mechanics against PC's? The game becomes less swingy, more predictable, less deadly. This is valuable for some games, but it's certainly not a style everyone appreciates.What is the benefit of SoD mechanics, when they are used? The game becomes more swingy, less predictable, more dynamic. This is also valuable for some games, but it's certainly not a style everyone appreciates. Myself, I tend to prefer swing. I like the game to go from OH NO to OH BOY a lot. So killing a PC is fine, and raising it the next round with some bonus is also fine -- instant death, instant resurrection. In fact, if you're dead for longer than a few rounds, you're DEAD, dead. But in keeping that symmetry, you could say ritual resurrection, ritual death. You can only cause instant death via ritual (something like the folklore surrounding voodoo dolls, or even older shamanism), and raising someone is likewise a difficult task. Time is probably less of an issue here, but there are probably some limits: died within a day, or a week. Or you could say that no one ever really dies, and thus no one ever has to get raised (the 4e solution, in a functional way, IMXP). I'd personally do a different answer for each creature, like thus:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Basilisk: Meeting their gaze turns you to stone, but you get a save every round to throw it off.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Medusa: Meeting their gaze turns you to stone instantly and forever; they are high-level, Solo encounters ("Boss Monsters"), and you will need rituals to undo their effects (though you should have the requisite rituals at the level at which you're encountering them).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Banshee: Hearing their voice deals necrotic damage (it ages you). Most common folk (at single-digit HP) die instantly, but heroes can endure it for a time.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Ghoul: You get to save each round against the paralysis.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Sirens: Their voices dominate you, but you can save each round against it. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Assassins: They deal enough damage, once in the encounter, during a surprise round, to kill you in one blow. After that, they're less threatening. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Spawning Undead: If they kill you, you rise as their spawn. A ritual is required to help lay your soul to rest (and then you can maybe be raised).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Vampire: As a "boss monster," it's save-or-be-dominated.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Deadly Poison:  It's save-or-die time.   </li> </ul>etc. I don't mind save-or-die effects in certain roles, though certainly I think 1e and 2e may have overdone it a bit (and 3e largely kept the same dynamic). The bypassing of HP isn't inherently a problem for me -- it adds variety and dynamics to the gameplay, which makes things more interesting. I'm not sold on the "reduce it to X hp first" trick as a panacea, because that still mandates the whole "whittle it down" approach. That should not always be the approach that a party takes to combat. Sometimes, the party should take a "kill it quick before it kills you" approach, or the "ambush attack!" approach, and not every combat should be an X-round slogfest.</blockquote>

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