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L&L 3/05 - Save or Die!
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5845018" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>[MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION], the Modlvay text seems pretty cut and dried!</p><p></p><p>And [MENTION=336]D'karr[/MENTION], thanks for that. Generally OSRIC follows the AD&D text pretty closely, but in this case there is a bit of divergence.</p><p></p><p>I would still be willing to allow the interpretive wriggle room in AD&D, because it is a common feature of AD&D to be inconsistent or sloppy in its rules text (even within books, let alone across them), and the "averting the eyes" interpretation would fit with the essay on saving throws that is towards the end of the combat chapter in the DMG. (From memory, Moldvay Basic does not have the same text on saving throws, <em>and</em> it a more tightly written edition, which means I don't think that it opens up the same wriggle room.)</p><p></p><p>I don't see that there is any wriggle room in 3E, though, because (i) it has an explicit account of what a Fort save means that is quite different from AD&D, and (ii) it has an explicit reference to surviving a Medusa's gaze (both in the SRD which I quoted and the MM which Hussar quoted). Unlike the AD&D text, this stuff is all unambiguous and all pushes in the same direction.</p><p></p><p>And just for compleness: in a staring contest with a Medusa, the SRD indicates that a character would have to roll two saves per round:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">Each character within range of a gaze attack must attempt a saving throw (which can be a Fortitude or Will save) each round at the beginning of his turn. </p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">. . .</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">A creature with a gaze attack can actively attempt to use its gaze as an attack action. The creature simply chooses a target within range, and that opponent must attempt a saving throw. If the target has chosen to defend against the gaze as discussed above, the opponent gets a chance to avoid the saving throw (either 50% chance for averting eyes or 100% chance for shutting eyes). It is possible for an opponent to save against a creature’s gaze twice during the same round, once before its own action and once during the creature’s action.</p><p></p><p>With two saves required per 6-second round, even a character who fails only on a 1 has only about a one-third chance of lasting a minute.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 5845018, member: 42582"] [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION], the Modlvay text seems pretty cut and dried! And [MENTION=336]D'karr[/MENTION], thanks for that. Generally OSRIC follows the AD&D text pretty closely, but in this case there is a bit of divergence. I would still be willing to allow the interpretive wriggle room in AD&D, because it is a common feature of AD&D to be inconsistent or sloppy in its rules text (even within books, let alone across them), and the "averting the eyes" interpretation would fit with the essay on saving throws that is towards the end of the combat chapter in the DMG. (From memory, Moldvay Basic does not have the same text on saving throws, [I]and[/I] it a more tightly written edition, which means I don't think that it opens up the same wriggle room.) I don't see that there is any wriggle room in 3E, though, because (i) it has an explicit account of what a Fort save means that is quite different from AD&D, and (ii) it has an explicit reference to surviving a Medusa's gaze (both in the SRD which I quoted and the MM which Hussar quoted). Unlike the AD&D text, this stuff is all unambiguous and all pushes in the same direction. And just for compleness: in a staring contest with a Medusa, the SRD indicates that a character would have to roll two saves per round: [indent]Each character within range of a gaze attack must attempt a saving throw (which can be a Fortitude or Will save) each round at the beginning of his turn. . . . A creature with a gaze attack can actively attempt to use its gaze as an attack action. The creature simply chooses a target within range, and that opponent must attempt a saving throw. If the target has chosen to defend against the gaze as discussed above, the opponent gets a chance to avoid the saving throw (either 50% chance for averting eyes or 100% chance for shutting eyes). It is possible for an opponent to save against a creature’s gaze twice during the same round, once before its own action and once during the creature’s action.[/indent] With two saves required per 6-second round, even a character who fails only on a 1 has only about a one-third chance of lasting a minute. [/QUOTE]
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