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L&L 3/11/2013 This Week in D&D
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6103499" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Hehe. Maybe it is light playful ribbing, sure. OTOH like I say, I was there pretty early. I GET where many of the OSR people are coming from. I think the more thoughtful ones are perfectly cogent and I have no problem with them. OTOH I think that the majority of RPGers (as pretty clearly evidenced by sales figures and interest at cons, etc.) have gone on to more varied and sophisticated forms of gaming. I think the big problem is really trying to divide up the gaming public into some sort of "OSR people" that are over in one corner and some other group that is in the other corner. It isn't like that. I think there is a much more nuanced picture out there. I think the SAME PEOPLE in different times and places largely enjoy various types of games. </p><p></p><p>I can easily run a Basic D&D game for some 10 yr olds that haven't ever played an RPG before. They will easily understand the goals and concepts. Its a very nailed down sort of format with simple rules, and they will enjoy and benefit from player-oriented challenge. I think a bit newer cleaner set of rules wouldn't hurt for that though, and maybe DDN 'basic' mode will be perfect for that. Great! Got nothing against it.</p><p></p><p>OTOH when I play with my groups of long-time RPGers, who are all quite creative folks who have lots of fun making up stories and inventing new settings and etc, and are quite willing and even eager to play with more rules, then something like 4e or maybe eventually some option-rich version of DDN sounds like the thing. Maybe now and then some of those people will also enjoy a one-shot dungeon crawl for old time's sake too. </p><p></p><p>I don't personally know the sorts of people who seem to want to play just old school DCs. I'm sure they exist, I see they have forums and etc online, and certainly someone buys all those OSR books (or a few of them at least). Still, I don't meet them IRL, and I barely see them at cons. I think the number of such people for whom only the purest of old-fashioned rules will due and for whom nothing else is acceptable is VERY small. I think it is one of the smallest niches out there.</p><p></p><p>None of that precludes many people from finding reprints of old 1e books and whatnot -that they can't buy originals of or wouldn't spend the money for- fascinating. If I had no 1e books I'd have probably bought a copy myself, or at least thought about it. I don't think that means there's necessarily a vast pent-up demand for the majority of D&Ders to run out and recreate the playing of the 1970's all over again. I think it means there are curious people and people that want to try different things, want to sometimes run older styles of game, just want to read the books and own them, etc.</p><p></p><p>The notion that WotC should focus its attention on that market with its flagship game to the point of risking losing its existing customers, who have after all floated the product for almost 20 years now, seems odd to me. I think its fine to have rules that allow for those people to use DDN to play some different styles of game, but the primary focus should be on 4e players, 3.x players, PF players, and new people joining the hobby. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>All I would say is that all these OSR personalities seem like quite eccentric and extreme characters to me. They seem NOTHING like the ordinary (well, fairly ordinary) people that I play RPGs with on a weekly basis. I don't play with people who obsess about their pipe-smoking, are ultra-hipsters that are dismissive of other opinions, or who run off with their ill-gotten Kickstarter gains. If that's the crowd WotC wants to consult with on their new game, that's their business, but it doesn't sound like those people are representative of anything except how batty the human race can be. Maybe they're perfectly nice people and all, I don't know them or pay any attention to them or what they write, but in the very few instances where someone like that sat down at my table they were definitely not on the same wavelength with the rest of the people there. That can be interesting, but it hardly makes me think that D&D should be tailored for them as opposed to my friends, who are 2 state govt works, an IT consultant, an engineer, another programmer, and 2 librarians currently. In the past I've had machinists, teachers, kids, college students, etc etc etc in games. They were all pretty ordinary folks. I think mostly D&D should be written for them.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 6103499, member: 82106"] Hehe. Maybe it is light playful ribbing, sure. OTOH like I say, I was there pretty early. I GET where many of the OSR people are coming from. I think the more thoughtful ones are perfectly cogent and I have no problem with them. OTOH I think that the majority of RPGers (as pretty clearly evidenced by sales figures and interest at cons, etc.) have gone on to more varied and sophisticated forms of gaming. I think the big problem is really trying to divide up the gaming public into some sort of "OSR people" that are over in one corner and some other group that is in the other corner. It isn't like that. I think there is a much more nuanced picture out there. I think the SAME PEOPLE in different times and places largely enjoy various types of games. I can easily run a Basic D&D game for some 10 yr olds that haven't ever played an RPG before. They will easily understand the goals and concepts. Its a very nailed down sort of format with simple rules, and they will enjoy and benefit from player-oriented challenge. I think a bit newer cleaner set of rules wouldn't hurt for that though, and maybe DDN 'basic' mode will be perfect for that. Great! Got nothing against it. OTOH when I play with my groups of long-time RPGers, who are all quite creative folks who have lots of fun making up stories and inventing new settings and etc, and are quite willing and even eager to play with more rules, then something like 4e or maybe eventually some option-rich version of DDN sounds like the thing. Maybe now and then some of those people will also enjoy a one-shot dungeon crawl for old time's sake too. I don't personally know the sorts of people who seem to want to play just old school DCs. I'm sure they exist, I see they have forums and etc online, and certainly someone buys all those OSR books (or a few of them at least). Still, I don't meet them IRL, and I barely see them at cons. I think the number of such people for whom only the purest of old-fashioned rules will due and for whom nothing else is acceptable is VERY small. I think it is one of the smallest niches out there. None of that precludes many people from finding reprints of old 1e books and whatnot -that they can't buy originals of or wouldn't spend the money for- fascinating. If I had no 1e books I'd have probably bought a copy myself, or at least thought about it. I don't think that means there's necessarily a vast pent-up demand for the majority of D&Ders to run out and recreate the playing of the 1970's all over again. I think it means there are curious people and people that want to try different things, want to sometimes run older styles of game, just want to read the books and own them, etc. The notion that WotC should focus its attention on that market with its flagship game to the point of risking losing its existing customers, who have after all floated the product for almost 20 years now, seems odd to me. I think its fine to have rules that allow for those people to use DDN to play some different styles of game, but the primary focus should be on 4e players, 3.x players, PF players, and new people joining the hobby. All I would say is that all these OSR personalities seem like quite eccentric and extreme characters to me. They seem NOTHING like the ordinary (well, fairly ordinary) people that I play RPGs with on a weekly basis. I don't play with people who obsess about their pipe-smoking, are ultra-hipsters that are dismissive of other opinions, or who run off with their ill-gotten Kickstarter gains. If that's the crowd WotC wants to consult with on their new game, that's their business, but it doesn't sound like those people are representative of anything except how batty the human race can be. Maybe they're perfectly nice people and all, I don't know them or pay any attention to them or what they write, but in the very few instances where someone like that sat down at my table they were definitely not on the same wavelength with the rest of the people there. That can be interesting, but it hardly makes me think that D&D should be tailored for them as opposed to my friends, who are 2 state govt works, an IT consultant, an engineer, another programmer, and 2 librarians currently. In the past I've had machinists, teachers, kids, college students, etc etc etc in games. They were all pretty ordinary folks. I think mostly D&D should be written for them. [/QUOTE]
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