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<blockquote data-quote="tomBitonti" data-source="post: 5918571" data-attributes="member: 13107">The whole business of scaling AC by level, without typing it, seemed off to me.The problem appears in 3/3.5E, and goes back to 1E, with the scaling of AC by HD.Using demons as an example, the table goes:Hit Dice, Challenge Rating, Natural Armor BonusHD&nbsp; 2 CR&nbsp; 2 NAB&nbsp; 5HD&nbsp; 7 CR&nbsp; 6 NAB&nbsp; 8HD 12 CR 10 NAB 13HD 12 CR 13 NAB 19HD 17 CR 17 NAB 16HD 20 CR 20 NAB 19With full plate providing an armor bonus of 8, that gives the higher level demons the equivalent of 2 to 2.5 the value of full plate.(There was a similar effect with drow and their very high armor plus values, +5 bucklers, +5 armor, and +5 rings of protection adding up to +15 to AC.)The reasoning is given (I believe) as their otherworldly nature, which I can accept for a while, but the very high values begin to seem absurd.That the game has bared progressions (+1 level give +1 attack bonus, +1 level gives +1 AC, or some multiple there-of) seems to degrade the narrative of the game.&nbsp; This is a residue of the original game design which was fun for a little while, but now seems thin.From:<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/demon.htm" target="_blank">Demon :: d20srd.org</a>Dretch Size/Type:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Small Outsider (Chaotic, Extraplanar, Evil)Hit Dice:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2d8+4 (13 hp)Armor Class:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 16 (+1 size, +5 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 16Challenge Rating:&nbsp; &nbsp; 2Babau Size/Type:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Medium Outsider (Chaotic, Extraplanar, Evil)Hit Dice:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 7d8+35 (66 hp)Armor Class:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 19 (+1 Dex, +8 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 18Challenge Rating:&nbsp; &nbsp; 6Bebilith Size/Type:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Huge Outsider (Chaotic, Extraplanar, Evil)Hit Dice:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 12d8+96 (150 hp)Armor Class:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 22 (-2 size, +1 Dex, +13 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 21Challenge Rating:&nbsp; &nbsp; 10Glabrezu Size/Type:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Huge Outsider (Chaotic, Extraplanar, Evil)Hit Dice:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 12d8+120 (174 hp)Armor Class:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 27 (-2 size, +19 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 27Challenge Rating:&nbsp; &nbsp; 13Marilith Size/Type:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Large Outsider (Chaotic, Extraplanar, Evil)Hit Dice:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 16d8+144 (216 hp)Armor Class:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 29 (-1 size, +4 Dex, +16 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 25Challenge Rating:&nbsp; &nbsp; 17Balor Size/Type:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Large Outsider (Chaotic, Extraplanar, Evil)Hit Dice:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 20d8+200 (290 hp)Armor Class:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 35 (-1 size, +7 Dex, +19 natural), touch 16, flat-footed 28Challenge Rating:&nbsp; &nbsp; 20TomB</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tomBitonti, post: 5918571, member: 13107"] The whole business of scaling AC by level, without typing it, seemed off to me. The problem appears in 3/3.5E, and goes back to 1E, with the scaling of AC by HD. Using demons as an example, the table goes: Hit Dice, Challenge Rating, Natural Armor Bonus HD 2 CR 2 NAB 5 HD 7 CR 6 NAB 8 HD 12 CR 10 NAB 13 HD 12 CR 13 NAB 19 HD 17 CR 17 NAB 16 HD 20 CR 20 NAB 19 With full plate providing an armor bonus of 8, that gives the higher level demons the equivalent of 2 to 2.5 the value of full plate. (There was a similar effect with drow and their very high armor plus values, +5 bucklers, +5 armor, and +5 rings of protection adding up to +15 to AC.) The reasoning is given (I believe) as their otherworldly nature, which I can accept for a while, but the very high values begin to seem absurd. That the game has bared progressions (+1 level give +1 attack bonus, +1 level gives +1 AC, or some multiple there-of) seems to degrade the narrative of the game. This is a residue of the original game design which was fun for a little while, but now seems thin. From: [url=http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/demon.htm]Demon :: d20srd.org[/url] Dretch Size/Type: Small Outsider (Chaotic, Extraplanar, Evil) Hit Dice: 2d8+4 (13 hp) Armor Class: 16 (+1 size, +5 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 16 Challenge Rating: 2 Babau Size/Type: Medium Outsider (Chaotic, Extraplanar, Evil) Hit Dice: 7d8+35 (66 hp) Armor Class: 19 (+1 Dex, +8 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 18 Challenge Rating: 6 Bebilith Size/Type: Huge Outsider (Chaotic, Extraplanar, Evil) Hit Dice: 12d8+96 (150 hp) Armor Class: 22 (-2 size, +1 Dex, +13 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 21 Challenge Rating: 10 Glabrezu Size/Type: Huge Outsider (Chaotic, Extraplanar, Evil) Hit Dice: 12d8+120 (174 hp) Armor Class: 27 (-2 size, +19 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 27 Challenge Rating: 13 Marilith Size/Type: Large Outsider (Chaotic, Extraplanar, Evil) Hit Dice: 16d8+144 (216 hp) Armor Class: 29 (-1 size, +4 Dex, +16 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 25 Challenge Rating: 17 Balor Size/Type: Large Outsider (Chaotic, Extraplanar, Evil) Hit Dice: 20d8+200 (290 hp) Armor Class: 35 (-1 size, +7 Dex, +19 natural), touch 16, flat-footed 28 Challenge Rating: 20 TomB [/QUOTE]

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