Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
L&L 6/23 A Living Rule Set
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Transformer" data-source="post: 6319765" data-attributes="member: 70008"><p>As you say yourself, it's always been the case that a group can keep using the older version of a rule. So how is this a substantially new approach? Significant rules elements are still getting overhauled. As Mearls says, things that get overhauled are things that are seriously problematic for both DMs and players. We're talking about major game fixes here, game fixes that most groups will use and that will be integrated into organized play. Mearls seems to genuinely believe that this is fundamentally different from the 3.0 > 3.5 transition, but I don't see how it is. It's more gradual, but that's a minor difference. Either way, in five years, the PHB is going to be significantly different from the PHB sitting on my shelf.</p><p></p><p>You say that this is "my issue," but I seriously doubt I'm the only one. In 4-5 years, when the PHB contains several major rules changes and overhauled classes, and looks every bit as different from the launch PHB as the 3.5 PHB looked from the 3.0 PHB, I doubt I'm the only one who will feel like a sucker for buying physical books at launch.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>As I <em>specifically</em> said in my post, I expect problems and issues. I'm fine with the type of minor errata discussed in the first half of Mearls' article. My hope was not a lack of problems and issues, but a lack of problems and issues major enough to warrant completely re-writing classes or whole sections of the rules. You seem to think that is an unreasonable thing to hope for. I don't. I don't think it's unreasonable to hope that my $150 book set which was publicly playtested for a year will manage to avoid having a substantial number of design problems so fundamental that they justify major re-writes.</p><p></p><p>And as for the designers' intentions, well, those were never in dispute. I have no doubt at all that Mearls is trying to act in the best interest of the game and its players. But unfortunately, Mearls' good intentions aren't what directly affect the game. His concrete decisions are what directly affect the game. And the fundamental decision here is "look out, there's going to be a ton of errata for this edition."</p><p></p><p></p><p>And that's really it. What this L&L says, at its heart, is "there's gonna be a ton of errata, including major rules overhauls." There are lots of (entirely sincere) good intentions thrown in, and there's some clarity on how it's all gonna happen (minor updates are rolled out on an annual basis, major updates are released for free for public playtesting). But the most important thing that was clarified here is that in the debate between "as little errata as possible" and "lots of errata," they're going with "lots of errata." That is not my preference. Not at all. And it's the first thing I've read that makes me reconsider buying the core books at launch.</p><p></p><p></p><p>EDIT: Two more things.</p><p></p><p>First, I hope the designers avoid <em>extremely minor</em> errata, by which I mean corrections to typos and wording errors and the like. If the meaning of the rule is clear, then please don't bother putting a correction in the errata document. Such corrections only clutter up the errata document and make it dozens of intimidating pages long, like with 4e's errata. Actual substantive rules changes and clarifications only, please.</p><p></p><p>Second, I like the dwarf.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Transformer, post: 6319765, member: 70008"] As you say yourself, it's always been the case that a group can keep using the older version of a rule. So how is this a substantially new approach? Significant rules elements are still getting overhauled. As Mearls says, things that get overhauled are things that are seriously problematic for both DMs and players. We're talking about major game fixes here, game fixes that most groups will use and that will be integrated into organized play. Mearls seems to genuinely believe that this is fundamentally different from the 3.0 > 3.5 transition, but I don't see how it is. It's more gradual, but that's a minor difference. Either way, in five years, the PHB is going to be significantly different from the PHB sitting on my shelf. You say that this is "my issue," but I seriously doubt I'm the only one. In 4-5 years, when the PHB contains several major rules changes and overhauled classes, and looks every bit as different from the launch PHB as the 3.5 PHB looked from the 3.0 PHB, I doubt I'm the only one who will feel like a sucker for buying physical books at launch. As I [I]specifically[/I] said in my post, I expect problems and issues. I'm fine with the type of minor errata discussed in the first half of Mearls' article. My hope was not a lack of problems and issues, but a lack of problems and issues major enough to warrant completely re-writing classes or whole sections of the rules. You seem to think that is an unreasonable thing to hope for. I don't. I don't think it's unreasonable to hope that my $150 book set which was publicly playtested for a year will manage to avoid having a substantial number of design problems so fundamental that they justify major re-writes. And as for the designers' intentions, well, those were never in dispute. I have no doubt at all that Mearls is trying to act in the best interest of the game and its players. But unfortunately, Mearls' good intentions aren't what directly affect the game. His concrete decisions are what directly affect the game. And the fundamental decision here is "look out, there's going to be a ton of errata for this edition." And that's really it. What this L&L says, at its heart, is "there's gonna be a ton of errata, including major rules overhauls." There are lots of (entirely sincere) good intentions thrown in, and there's some clarity on how it's all gonna happen (minor updates are rolled out on an annual basis, major updates are released for free for public playtesting). But the most important thing that was clarified here is that in the debate between "as little errata as possible" and "lots of errata," they're going with "lots of errata." That is not my preference. Not at all. And it's the first thing I've read that makes me reconsider buying the core books at launch. EDIT: Two more things. First, I hope the designers avoid [I]extremely minor[/I] errata, by which I mean corrections to typos and wording errors and the like. If the meaning of the rule is clear, then please don't bother putting a correction in the errata document. Such corrections only clutter up the errata document and make it dozens of intimidating pages long, like with 4e's errata. Actual substantive rules changes and clarifications only, please. Second, I like the dwarf. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
L&L 6/23 A Living Rule Set
Top