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Message: <blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 5910670" data-attributes="member: 92511">Coulpa things that have already been said and argued and said and aruged s'more...Cantrips as At-wills: I don't really have a big problem with this, but not with a slew of "cantrips" that are, essentially, "Magic missile" or "mini-fireball" (with various energy types applied). The cantrips, as makes sense, are the "tricks of the trade"...the MINOR magics that all mages learn before getting into working their own crafts...the way a "master wizard" and his/her apprentice could live in a tower, all by themselves, and get things done...cleaning, cooking, lighting candles, inscribing and transcribing written documents or diagrams, reading and detecting magic. The Light spell as a cantrip was, I thought, a great idea! Produce flame was the only, potentially, damage causing thing in the list...moreso if whatever you used it on caught fire and burned for itself than the cantrip itself. Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Open/Close were all very handy and, if used creatively, could be very "magic vibey," even in combat. But rays/bursts/daggers/javelins of fire and ice? Not really "cantrips"...to my mind/in my book. The idea of a spell getting disrupted with a hit gives me no pause whatsoever. The idea that then, after deciding to cast X spell and having it disrupted, you can still use a cantrip that round? Again, doesn't really sit well with my "makes sense"/flavor sensibilities.The Scrolls taking up a spell slot to read/cast off? No thank you very much. I understand the reasoning/desire to minimize scrolls as an endless supply of "other spells"...but the idea that it requires the mage's own energies to cast off of a scroll just doesn't fly, flavor-wise, for me. Besides, as others have pointed out, the idea of a rogue attempting one or a fighter pulling out that "Protection from Undead" scroll he was gifted (or bought!) from the local Temple of Light are...or rather, I feel, should be...valid possibilities for scrolls in the game...as well as making them more useful as "treasure" as opposed to something of a toss away, "Oh, we found another scroll in the giant's hoard. Here ya go mage-guy." In fact, I might suggest...and see as a possibility, that clerics and druids (warlocks and bards and just about any other "spell caster" character), should be able to access scroll-spells even if those spells are not their own "type of magic." Mage casting cleric/divine spells, Druids (Nature-casters) reading mage/arcane spells, etc. Not "above their available spell level", of course...or even with some kind of limitation...the Druid who can cast 3rd level druid spells is able to parse out a 1st level mage or cleric spell from a scroll, etc.The other thing, as has been brought up hereabouts is...how ARE spell levels/slots/availability going to work? Do we have any definite info on that? Is "2 spell slots per level" going to be it? Intelligence bonuses applied...or applied where/to what? Is that for mages/wizards only or all spell casters? Are we going to have a set table of spell slots per spell level per caster level...even per class, as in Basic-2e? Or is it going to be something like "Int bonus +1 (or 2) per PC level with the next spell level being achievable every other PC level? Or "minimum caster levels per spell, then prepare this in any slot you want (more or less powerful), but you may not be able to do/chances of failure increase it if its too high/beyond you? "Max spell level = Double caster level"? And/Or any other of a dozen different ways?"Full casters [mages, druids, "priest style clerics", etc.] use this table...Partial casters [bards, warlocks, "fighting clerics", paladins or rangers who use spells, etc...] use this other one with lesser numbers/slower progression."? That works for me, though I'm sure wouldn't for everyone...but, the point is, just tell me what it's going to be! Seems a lot of concern here (and in other threads), be it "Magic is Difficult/Dangerous", "Cantrips as At Wills", Scroll or Wand use, et al. might be greatly calmed (or inflamed!) once we know what the actual spell progression is going to look like...and who/what classes it will actually apply to.I probably don't need to worry (much) about "At will Cantrips" if the mages are gettign 4-6 "real" spell slots at first level. I don't need to worry (much) about Magic being dangerous/reading spells off of Scrolls/casters trying spells "above their ability" if they have suitable slots in a "safe/easily castable" zone, etc...Perhaps a bit of a departure from this thread. A new thread on that specific last topic might be warranted.Personally, just give me a spell table and be done with it. I (indeed, any DM) can certainly add to or subtract from the possibilities ("+ Int bonus spell levels/day", as I've been applying since 1e, or whatever) on my own once we have a set number.--Steel Dragons</blockquote>

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