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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5911549" data-attributes="member: 22779">But, then you have the issue at the low end where you have so few spells that most of the time you are not doing anything directly related to your class.I suppose the hard limit could be high enough that that doesn't happen, but, then you have the issue on the other end where the high level caster changes the nature of the campaign.I'm really having a problem seeing the issue with the wizard having a combination of the two systems.&nbsp; You have a magical power that is analogous to a regular attack/skill check/mundane action that is at will and a sharply limited list of fire and forget magic for the big guns.Yup.So a D&amp;D wizard should not be like the iconic D&amp;D wizard?&nbsp; Really?&nbsp; And, which Merlin are we talking about?&nbsp; That's a kinda like invoking Batman - do you mean the Caped Crusader or the Dark Knight?Well, I'd say it's a bit of option A and option B.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin&nbsp; &nbsp; :D"&nbsp; data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />You have a large number of spells per day and each spell can be extremely versatile.&nbsp; Polymorph can be a very, very powerful spell, particularly in 3e, but in earlier editions too, for its level.&nbsp; Polymorph self into a Behir, attack and grapple a medium target (with your size and strength bonuses, you're almost never going to lose a grapple check) and shred the target with impunity.&nbsp; Pin and rake until it dies, or, for more fun, just swallow it and it dies.Teleport is an issue because it's entirely campaign changing.&nbsp; Or it can be.&nbsp; Want to do &quot;Explore the Jungle&quot; campaigns?&nbsp; Well, when the party hits teleport, then can just Bamf home, resupply and come back.&nbsp; Suddenly survival isn't an issue.&nbsp; Need to buy some magical item (or have it made)?&nbsp; Teleport to a major city and get it.&nbsp; On and on.&nbsp; And the AD&amp;D limitations aren't that hard to get around by that level.&nbsp; A simple levitate spell first and then teleporting into the air above your landing point and you're good to go.Well, this is something of a separate issue.&nbsp; I'd say Conan isn't really too hard to do in D&amp;D.&nbsp; Hercules needs some magical item help but it's doable too.&nbsp; But this is a somewhat orthagonal issue to the caster one.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 5911549, member: 22779"] But, then you have the issue at the low end where you have so few spells that most of the time you are not doing anything directly related to your class. I suppose the hard limit could be high enough that that doesn't happen, but, then you have the issue on the other end where the high level caster changes the nature of the campaign. I'm really having a problem seeing the issue with the wizard having a combination of the two systems. You have a magical power that is analogous to a regular attack/skill check/mundane action that is at will and a sharply limited list of fire and forget magic for the big guns. Yup. So a D&D wizard should not be like the iconic D&D wizard? Really? And, which Merlin are we talking about? That's a kinda like invoking Batman - do you mean the Caped Crusader or the Dark Knight? Well, I'd say it's a bit of option A and option B. :D You have a large number of spells per day and each spell can be extremely versatile. Polymorph can be a very, very powerful spell, particularly in 3e, but in earlier editions too, for its level. Polymorph self into a Behir, attack and grapple a medium target (with your size and strength bonuses, you're almost never going to lose a grapple check) and shred the target with impunity. Pin and rake until it dies, or, for more fun, just swallow it and it dies. Teleport is an issue because it's entirely campaign changing. Or it can be. Want to do "Explore the Jungle" campaigns? Well, when the party hits teleport, then can just Bamf home, resupply and come back. Suddenly survival isn't an issue. Need to buy some magical item (or have it made)? Teleport to a major city and get it. On and on. And the AD&D limitations aren't that hard to get around by that level. A simple levitate spell first and then teleporting into the air above your landing point and you're good to go. Well, this is something of a separate issue. I'd say Conan isn't really too hard to do in D&D. Hercules needs some magical item help but it's doable too. But this is a somewhat orthagonal issue to the caster one. [/QUOTE]

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