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<blockquote data-quote="Sunseeker" data-source="post: 6071285">I keep seeing a floating comparison between D&amp;D and other board games, and some extent MTG.D&amp;D is traditionally a product of high investment.&nbsp; MTG is a product of low investment.With MTG, for between 9.99 and 12.99 you can get an MTG starter deck, there are at least a dozen of these that are considered &quot;Standard&quot; at any given time.&nbsp; Purchasing one gives you the ability to play the game.&nbsp; The rules are long and often complex, but time-stamp rules and layering rules aren't necessary to the majority of games, plus, you don't have to pay for them.&nbsp; With D&amp;D, in order to be able to play, you need to purchase the PHB, which provides instruction on how to play any of a dozen different race/class combos.&nbsp; Comparatively speaking, we could consider these &quot;decks&quot;.&nbsp; This however, will cost you MSRP $34.99 for the 4e PHB1, $29.99 for the 3.X PHB.&nbsp; It's arguable that you get more matieral in this for a better price....but this is only enough information to make your &quot;deck&quot;.&nbsp; In order to run a game, you don't simply need another player with another deck, you need two more books, each priced similarly.So, with MTG, two people need to pay a minimum of ~$25(one deck for each player), with D&amp;D, a minimum of two people are needed and three books totaling roughly $100.That's a pretty serious investment to play a game.&nbsp; I can get 3 books, enough to run a small variety of games, or I can purchase a deck @12.99, a deck for my friend, 12.99, a &quot;Fat Pack&quot; for 34.99, and leave $34.03 to purchase individual cards(the vast majority of which sell for pennies) online or from my friends to get specific items I want to further customize my deck.What makes it worse is that MTG keeps it's investment cost low.&nbsp; For 4.99 you can buy a booster pack of 15 cards.&nbsp; For the price of a D&amp;D book, you can get a &quot;Fat pack&quot;, containing some 8(which 4.99x8=$40, a good deal at any stretch) boosters, dice, lands and a nice box.&nbsp; For the same price, you can buy ONE more D&amp;D book.D&amp;D is NOT going to garner favor with casual gamers and new players if it maintains this investment model.&nbsp; The introductory product needs to be priced in line with the initial investment required for most other games, which is between $20 and $30 USD.&nbsp; Not $50-$75 or around $100.&nbsp; It also needs to be a &quot;complete&quot; product.&nbsp; Hell I don't care if they sell a &quot;Paladin booster pack&quot; that only includes instructions on how to play a paladin for $10.Honestly I thought the 4e &quot;race guides&quot; for MSRP 14.99 were a great idea!&nbsp; Yes in the long-run it's more expensive, but for a lower price a player could pick up a short but detailed book about a single race of their interest.&nbsp; Sure, WOTC could still sell big, heavy PHB-style books which contain 5 races and 5 classes, but at the same time, it could very easily utilize the MTG low-investment model and sell Race or Class &quot;handbooks&quot; for $10, allowing players a very low-investment in a specific product that pertains to their interests.hoooieee...look at all them double posts...sorry guys, my cell phone hates the internet..</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sunseeker, post: 6071285"] I keep seeing a floating comparison between D&D and other board games, and some extent MTG. D&D is traditionally a product of [B]high[/B] investment. MTG is a product of [I]low[/I] investment. With MTG, for between 9.99 and 12.99 you can get an MTG starter deck, there are at least a dozen of these that are considered "Standard" at any given time. Purchasing one gives you the ability to play the game. The rules are long and often complex, but time-stamp rules and layering rules aren't necessary to the majority of games, plus, you don't have to pay for them. With D&D, in order to be able to play, you need to purchase the PHB, which provides instruction on how to play any of a dozen different race/class combos. Comparatively speaking, we could consider these "decks". This however, will cost you MSRP $34.99 for the 4e PHB1, $29.99 for the 3.X PHB. It's arguable that you get more matieral in this for a better price....but this is only enough information to make your "deck". In order to run a game, you don't simply need another player with another deck, you need two more books, each priced similarly. So, with MTG, two people need to pay a minimum of ~$25(one deck for each player), with D&D, a minimum of two people are needed and three books totaling roughly $100. That's a pretty serious investment to play a game. I can get 3 books, enough to run a small variety of games, or I can purchase a deck @12.99, a deck for my friend, 12.99, a "Fat Pack" for 34.99, and leave $34.03 to purchase individual cards(the vast majority of which sell for pennies) online or from my friends to get specific items I want to further customize my deck. What makes it worse is that MTG keeps it's investment cost low. For 4.99 you can buy a booster pack of 15 cards. For the price of a D&D book, you can get a "Fat pack", containing some 8(which 4.99x8=$40, a good deal at any stretch) boosters, dice, lands and a nice box. For the same price, you can buy ONE more D&D book. D&D is [I][B]NOT[/B][/I] going to garner favor with casual gamers and new players if it maintains this investment model. The introductory product needs to be priced in line with the initial investment required for most other games, which is between $20 and $30 USD. Not $50-$75 or around $100. It also needs to be a "complete" product. Hell I don't care if they sell a "Paladin booster pack" that only includes instructions on how to play a paladin for $10. Honestly I thought the 4e "race guides" for MSRP 14.99 were a great idea! Yes in the long-run it's more expensive, but for a lower price a player could pick up a [I]short[/I] but detailed book about a single race of their interest. Sure, WOTC could still sell big, heavy PHB-style books which contain 5 races and 5 classes, but at the same time, it could very easily utilize the MTG low-investment model and sell Race or Class "handbooks" for $10, allowing players a very low-investment in a [I]specific[/I] product that pertains to their interests. hoooieee...look at all them double posts...sorry guys, my cell phone hates the internet.. [/QUOTE]

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