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L&L December 16th Can you feel it?
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<blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 6234095" data-attributes="member: 92511"><p>First, thank you [MENTION=5143]Majoru Oakheart[/MENTION] for the great synopsis. Apparently I've given you XP too recently. So if someone would cover that for me, I'd be much obliged.</p><p></p><p>Now, let's see if I can get/what I think 'bout all this...shtuff.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Ok. I can get behind this. I didn't realize it was something that needed to be called out/specifically addressed. But the fact that they want to is, overall (as far as I can see) a good thing.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If that really, though, a "Narrative mechanics" game thing? I mean, even the best role-player has the player knowledge and the character knowledge...and I'm not sure that one can [really be expected to] decide things without the other. "Is it a good idea to use an encounter power now" seems no different than spell casters having to decide if this is the right round to let loose with the fireball...or to Turn Undead now or let the fighter keep hacking away...or backstabbing now or waiting for a more "dramatic/climactic" round (like, say, when the fighter goes down, the thief dives out from the shadows and delivers the killing blow before the foe can off the bleeding fighter)...or raging or shapeshifting, etc...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This seems reasonable...expected...and out of no malice or saying "this casting mechanic is 'better' than the others" simply that "this is how we're going to have them work in D&D." as several people and examples have shown, folks can alter the system to suit their preferences...and if the game offers alternative methods, in the books themselves, more the better. But, as is the case with many points of contention 'round these parts, they have to start somewhere. There has to be a baseline...and then alternates built off of there. If the designers decide that magic "feels like D&D magic" using X method...then that's that. They are not [nor do I believe have ever been saying] it must work this way or this is the only way that "feels like D&D"...They are merely pointing out this is the baseline. No?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Your character knows "I have this much power <p style="text-align: left">." Whether it is a "memorized spell" or a "spell slot" or a "prepared spell" or "mana points" etc...are simply fluff issues. the player knows these are different ways of casting spells...the character just knows "this is how I make magic" and, typically has some sense of "this is how much power I have left."</p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left">I mean, do you [the player, and meaning the common/collective "you" = anyone, not MO specifically] decide, "I need to cast my fireball now or we're going to lose!" or do you [the PC] decide, "I need to expend my final power now or all is lost!" ? Is there a difference? I certainly don't see one. Seems to me this is simply a lot of splitting giant carnivorous hares.</p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left">What does this mean...the same speed?</p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left">Ok. Makes sense. </p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left">We're all good with this. No?</p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left">Iiiii'm not sure what this argument could mean? What would be something to simulate that might take months in game-time? And, regardless [to a degree], do people not know how to handwave in-game time? If something takes 10 minutes to do at the table...and you say "It's been 2 months in the game world"...who's complaining? And why?</p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left">Ooookay. No one's arguing against this, are they? I mean...it really isn't arguable...nor, again, is it the kind of thing I would think Mearls needs to call out/spotlight. Isn't this...obvious?</p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left"> </p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left">Again. Agreed...and obvious.</p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left">Would not defining it in [too much] detail mean you DON'T have to worry about these things...the rules will tell you. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/erm.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":erm:" title="Erm :erm:" data-shortname=":erm:" /></p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left">Again, agreed...and obvious.</p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left">So, again, I'm really not sure what it is he's trying to get at here. "Designing D&Ds balance to please everyones is hard"? Uhhhh yeah. duh. Shouldn't promised everyone everything they know and love and, maybe, drawing some lines and sticking to your guns would have made things easier. That's why you're the guy makin' the big bucks. Quit'cher bitchin'. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="steeldragons, post: 6234095, member: 92511"] First, thank you [MENTION=5143]Majoru Oakheart[/MENTION] for the great synopsis. Apparently I've given you XP too recently. So if someone would cover that for me, I'd be much obliged. Now, let's see if I can get/what I think 'bout all this...shtuff. Ok. I can get behind this. I didn't realize it was something that needed to be called out/specifically addressed. But the fact that they want to is, overall (as far as I can see) a good thing. If that really, though, a "Narrative mechanics" game thing? I mean, even the best role-player has the player knowledge and the character knowledge...and I'm not sure that one can [really be expected to] decide things without the other. "Is it a good idea to use an encounter power now" seems no different than spell casters having to decide if this is the right round to let loose with the fireball...or to Turn Undead now or let the fighter keep hacking away...or backstabbing now or waiting for a more "dramatic/climactic" round (like, say, when the fighter goes down, the thief dives out from the shadows and delivers the killing blow before the foe can off the bleeding fighter)...or raging or shapeshifting, etc... This seems reasonable...expected...and out of no malice or saying "this casting mechanic is 'better' than the others" simply that "this is how we're going to have them work in D&D." as several people and examples have shown, folks can alter the system to suit their preferences...and if the game offers alternative methods, in the books themselves, more the better. But, as is the case with many points of contention 'round these parts, they have to start somewhere. There has to be a baseline...and then alternates built off of there. If the designers decide that magic "feels like D&D magic" using X method...then that's that. They are not [nor do I believe have ever been saying] it must work this way or this is the only way that "feels like D&D"...They are merely pointing out this is the baseline. No? Your character knows "I have this much power [left]." Whether it is a "memorized spell" or a "spell slot" or a "prepared spell" or "mana points" etc...are simply fluff issues. the player knows these are different ways of casting spells...the character just knows "this is how I make magic" and, typically has some sense of "this is how much power I have left." I mean, do you [the player, and meaning the common/collective "you" = anyone, not MO specifically] decide, "I need to cast my fireball now or we're going to lose!" or do you [the PC] decide, "I need to expend my final power now or all is lost!" ? Is there a difference? I certainly don't see one. Seems to me this is simply a lot of splitting giant carnivorous hares. What does this mean...the same speed? Ok. Makes sense. We're all good with this. No? Iiiii'm not sure what this argument could mean? What would be something to simulate that might take months in game-time? And, regardless [to a degree], do people not know how to handwave in-game time? If something takes 10 minutes to do at the table...and you say "It's been 2 months in the game world"...who's complaining? And why? Ooookay. No one's arguing against this, are they? I mean...it really isn't arguable...nor, again, is it the kind of thing I would think Mearls needs to call out/spotlight. Isn't this...obvious? Again. Agreed...and obvious. Would not defining it in [too much] detail mean you DON'T have to worry about these things...the rules will tell you. :erm: Again, agreed...and obvious. So, again, I'm really not sure what it is he's trying to get at here. "Designing D&Ds balance to please everyones is hard"? Uhhhh yeah. duh. Shouldn't promised everyone everything they know and love and, maybe, drawing some lines and sticking to your guns would have made things easier. That's why you're the guy makin' the big bucks. Quit'cher bitchin'. :p[/left] [/QUOTE]
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