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<blockquote data-quote="Visanideth" data-source="post: 6104159" data-attributes="member: 6705825"><p>I'm sorry you had a poor experience with 4E. However, none of what you describe has anything to do with how the Powers system divorced the concept of "character-triggered effect" from "magics", which was the point of my post.</p><p></p><p>I'm not gonna pollute the thread with a detailed response on your criticism of 4E - suffice to say I don't share it, but you're entitled to your opinion. I will only point out that I never felt 4E removed the "literacy component" from the game - the game supported creativity as much as any other edition did - but it did separate DMs who legitimately knew how to challenge the players on fair ground and those who needed superior authority to do so. 4E gives you all the tools, as a DM, to challenge your players. It also gives the players the tools to defeat the GM if they outplay him. I honestly can't see anything bad in that. After 20 years of 2nd and 3rd edition, I felt it was liberating for me to be able to play a dragon as a smart creature that would go for the most frail target and keep hammering it because my players had the tools to counter such behaviour, instead of making up a reason to explain why the Wizard didn't die first in each and every combat.</p><p></p><p>Your comment honestly sounds like you're claiming 4E was bad because the players could win without asking for the DM's permission. Once again, as a DM, that's one of the most liberating experiences I've had in D&D. But to each its own.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Visanideth, post: 6104159, member: 6705825"] I'm sorry you had a poor experience with 4E. However, none of what you describe has anything to do with how the Powers system divorced the concept of "character-triggered effect" from "magics", which was the point of my post. I'm not gonna pollute the thread with a detailed response on your criticism of 4E - suffice to say I don't share it, but you're entitled to your opinion. I will only point out that I never felt 4E removed the "literacy component" from the game - the game supported creativity as much as any other edition did - but it did separate DMs who legitimately knew how to challenge the players on fair ground and those who needed superior authority to do so. 4E gives you all the tools, as a DM, to challenge your players. It also gives the players the tools to defeat the GM if they outplay him. I honestly can't see anything bad in that. After 20 years of 2nd and 3rd edition, I felt it was liberating for me to be able to play a dragon as a smart creature that would go for the most frail target and keep hammering it because my players had the tools to counter such behaviour, instead of making up a reason to explain why the Wizard didn't die first in each and every combat. Your comment honestly sounds like you're claiming 4E was bad because the players could win without asking for the DM's permission. Once again, as a DM, that's one of the most liberating experiences I've had in D&D. But to each its own. [/QUOTE]
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