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<blockquote data-quote="Balesir" data-source="post: 5862285" data-attributes="member: 27160">I didn't say &quot;broken&quot; and I didn't mean that in the sense frequently used on the intarnetz. Illusions and charms in earlier editions could be either underpowered (possibly to ridiculous extents) or grossly overpowered - depending entirely on what the DM could be persuaded was a &quot;logical&quot; interpretation of the written effects. I have seen illusions of gaping chasms ruled as doing the same damage that falling down a real chasm of the illusion's apparent depth would give ('cos the orcs absolutely believe they have fallen, and hit points are not just physical injury...). I have also seen it ruled that an illusory bridge over a real chasm has no effect (because as soon as they step on it they touch it and so dispel it). I have seen Charm Person used to get a bank manager to open a safe and leave the room; I have also seen it ruled that the charmed creature will not stop attacking the caster but will just switch to subdual damage ('cos they remember that the caster was attacking their friends, so they still need to restrain him...) It's a set of effects that could be either broken overpowered or crazy underpowered or anywhere in between - depending on how good the player using them is at persuading the particular DM about what they &quot;would, realistically&quot; do.Summons are simpler: old-style summoning spells just meant that one player gets to play an army (maybe 5-6 turns per combat round) while the mere mortals get to play one (for their own character). This applies to necromancers, too, even though &quot;Animate Dead&quot; might not be a summoning, technically.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Balesir, post: 5862285, member: 27160"] I didn't say "broken" and I didn't mean that in the sense frequently used on the intarnetz. Illusions and charms in earlier editions could be either underpowered (possibly to ridiculous extents) or grossly overpowered - depending entirely on what the DM could be persuaded was a "logical" interpretation of the written effects. I have seen illusions of gaping chasms ruled as doing the same damage that falling down a real chasm of the illusion's apparent depth would give ('cos the orcs absolutely believe they have fallen, and hit points are not just physical injury...). I have also seen it ruled that an illusory bridge over a real chasm has no effect (because as soon as they step on it they touch it and so dispel it). I have seen Charm Person used to get a bank manager to open a safe and leave the room; I have also seen it ruled that the charmed creature will not stop attacking the caster but will just switch to subdual damage ('cos they remember that the caster was attacking their friends, so they still need to restrain him...) It's a set of effects that could be either broken overpowered or crazy underpowered or anywhere in between - depending on how good the player using them is at persuading the particular DM about what they "would, realistically" do. Summons are simpler: old-style summoning spells just meant that one player gets to play an army (maybe 5-6 turns per combat round) while the mere mortals get to play one (for their own character). This applies to necromancers, too, even though "Animate Dead" might not be a summoning, technically. [/QUOTE]

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