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Message: <blockquote data-quote="dkyle" data-source="post: 5848055" data-attributes="member: 70707">What I dislike most about Mike's specific suggestion is the power of the effects he outlines.  The Skeleton, Zombie and Ghost ones are basically equivalent to Save or Die, in terms of encounter balance.  Unless they have the HP limits as discussed last week (and was quite popular, according to the poll), I think they're excessive.  But with HP limits, they lose a lot of the genre appeal of Turning, which is almost always done against undead who are at full "health".  It also feels like putting in a lot of effort, to set individual turn DCs and checks, all for one ability from one class.  It suggests an expectation that all Divines would end up with Turn Undead, so that work doesn't go to waste, but I don't really even like that all Clerics have Turn Undead, let alone all Divine classes.I also dislike the "Daily resource" aspect of pre-4E turning.  I dislike Daily resources in general, but I also think it's not very genre appropriate.  When do you see undead ignoring a holy symbol simply because the wielder used it too many times against other undead that day?I say make Turn Undead an at-will ability.  Whenever the Cleric is wielding their Holy Symbol (so in place of a weapon or shield, minor action to pull out), any Undead that attacks the Cleric, or an adjacent ally, are at a -2 to the attack, and take 1d8 + CHA + Cleric's level in Radiant (or Positive Energy) damage.  I generally like these sorts of "soft control" abilities, where instead of a literal compulsion, there's a disincentive to do something.  It creates more moments of interesting decision-making in combat.Then, put the more powerful nuking/controlling anti-Undead abilities into the Spell system.</blockquote>

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