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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tonguez" data-source="post: 3813960" data-attributes="member: 1125">1. I agree using the Hobs as PCs stats Hobgoblins should be LA +0 as is, there is nothing about them that makes them uber. If need be take away the move silently bonus and call it done.2. There isn't much that is inherently monstrous about them either. They are tall, muscular humanoids with orange-tinge to the skin and possibly fangs. They could easily pass for a offshoot of humans (even moreso than Orcs). Really if they are relatively common then they should be viewed along racist lines rather than monstrous ones.3. I once used a mountain based nation of city states in which humans and hobgoblins were equal citizens (the humans having a role as Clerics). They also recruited Ogres into their armies equiping them with iron armour and weapons - they were a major military force in the world.4. IMC Bugbears became neutral and were given brachiation and so have become the worlds Apemen (Mangani) swinging through the jungle. They are not related to goblins of Hobs in any way</blockquote>