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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Overkill_Engine" data-source="post: 3195075" data-attributes="member: 37785">You do have a point- If one takes a feat that one no longer satifies the pre-req for, it cannot be used. Guess the PC better reselect feats they qualify for. I'll make that a specification of the houserule- PC's must reselect feats if the stat trade-in makes them ineligible for feats.Dex 13 is not hard to achieve even under a limited point buy for base stats before racial mods. The extra durability and base saves makes up for the stat loss easily. And one could just pick another feat.Yes, that is certainly the point of the LA- I feel there may be a better way that doesnt leave a PC/villain with extremely anemic HP/BAB/Saves and skills compared to a regular PC of the same ECL, while leaving them with the special abilities and properties they were designed with.One should not expect to get to trade in those LA for HD for free though. And yes, the normal +1 mod per 4 HD gained was an extra exception I made to make sure the variant wasn't too easy to abuse- but I'm not set in stone on that particular facet though. Though I see I need to be more specific about the HD and size progression though- If for example, the 9HD altered LA gargoyle I used as an example gains racial HD after the LA conversion, it should resume any size progression based on racial HD as normal. But not the HD gained from conversion- they are in essense there to replace the empty LA levels, and as such should not make the creature more powerful when it ends up at the same ECL rating.Interesting interaction on the effect the increased BAB but decreased STR mod can have on combat damage though. Heres a fun example:Normal ECL 10 Gargoyle(4HD,5LA,1Fighter) vs AC 20 targetAssumed Str 14 (10 base, +4 racial)Greatsword damage= 2d6+3 damage (average 3.5+3.5+3=10)Greatsword to-hit= +6 (4 BAB, 2 STR) (aprox 40% chance to hit AC 20, 14 or higher)Average damage over 20 attacks= 8*10=80Altered ECL 10 Gargoyle (9HD,1Fighter) vs AC 20Assumed Str 12 (10 base, +2 racial)Greatsword damage= 2d6+1 damage (average 3.5+3.5+1=8)Greatsword to-hit= +11 (10 BAB, 1 STR) (aprox 60% chance to hit AC 20, 9 or higher)Average damage over 20 attacks= 12*8=96And this test was skewed in favor of the unmodified Gargoyle too- AC 20 enemies at ECL 10 are kinda on the weak side. And I left out cranking the STR scores a couple points higher and adding in Power attack to them- which the higher BAB Gargoyle (mine) can exploit to easily outdamage the Gargoyle with the better STR thanks to being able to dump BAB into PA to maintain the same hit probability at far greater damage per swing.The size of your ability mod isn't everything- it's how ya use it!Base saves are HD dependant- and whether on is epic is determined by ECL IIRC. I could be wrong though if LA doesn't count towards ECL for Epic- just seems a bit odd to make that exception. My system  ends up with same ECL and higher base saves. However, something I noticed:Looks like I found a refinement I needed to make for the houserule, as apparently the Vampire template just had to go and be a special case. I'll have to specify that one does gain BAB/Save/skill points when converting LA to HD.Some more numbers....Basic Rogue 12/Vamp ECL 20 Save bonuses:Fort= 4 (+4 class, +0 Con)   Reflex= 10 (+8 class, +2 Dex)Will= 5 (+4 class, +1 Wis)My version ECL 20 Save bonuses:Fort= 6 (+4 class, +0 Con, +2 HD) gain!Reflex= 10 (+8 class, +0 Dex, +2 HD) sameWill= 10 (+4 class, +0 Wis, +6 HD) substantial gain!Basic Rogue 12/vamp ECL 20 HP:12d12 HD=90 hp averageMy version ECL 20:20d12 HD=150 average hpBasic Rogue 12/vamp ECL 20 BAB:9/4My version ECL 20 BAB:13/8Constructs, Oozes, Plants, Vermin, and most Undead and Animals fall under this. Those HD are so sucky for those most part I might reduce the trade cost to 1 stat pt per HD. I can honestly say I have never seen a PC with a template that would convert there LA to Ooze HD however.</blockquote>

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