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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Overkill_Engine" data-source="post: 3195768" data-attributes="member: 37785">Correction- they are gained by taking the template AND satisfying the pre-requisites. They are in no way integral if the template stat mods don't bump you up high enough to get them for free.A Vampire in melee against an even halfway decently prepared melee character makes elves look manly and testosterone laden, thanks to all those LA levels. And the powers mainly make up for some of the crippling weaknesses of a Vampire.Most people expect PC's to have a class level of some sort. And the Gargoyle's favored class is Fighter, and I chose the weapon to illustrate that the STR mod isn't everything and losing some of it does not gimp the character at all.Yeah, my bad on forgetting to tack on the calcs for the Fighter level on the standard Gargoyle. It does shift the hit probability by 5%. And heavens forbid I use something that stands to gain possibly a decent amount from a conversion of this type to try to show that the conversion won't gimp the character.More detailed version, takes following into account (but not criticals):Normal ECL 9 Gargoyle (4HD, 5LA) vs AC 20Assumed Str 14 (10 base, +4 racial)Claw 1d4+2 (avg 4.5) +6 to hit (35% chance, or 7 out of 20 rolls) damage over 20 attacks=31.5 Claw 1d4+2 (avg 4.5) +6 to hit (35% chance, or 7 out of 20 rolls) damage over 20 attacks=31.5Bite 1d6+1 (avg 4.5) +4 to hit (25% chance, or 5 out of 20 rolls) damage over 20 attacks=22.5Gore 1d6+1 (avg 4.5) +4 to hit (25% chance, or 5 out of 20 rolls) damage over 20 attacks=22.5Total damage over 20 rounds=108Over Five rounds avg=27Altered ECL 9 Gargoyle (9HD) vs AC 20Assumed Str 14 (10 base, +2 racial)Claw 1d4+1 (avg 3.5) +10 to hit (55% chance, or 11 out of 20 rolls) damage over 20 attacks=38.5Claw 1d4+1 (avg 3.5) +10 to hit (55% chance, or 11 out of 20 rolls) damage over 20 attacks=38.5Bite 1d6+0 (avg 3.5) +8  to hit (45% chance, or 9 out of 20 rolls)  damage over 20 attacks=31.5Gore 1d6+0 (avg 3.5) +8  to hit (45% chance, or 9 out of 20 rolls)  damage over 20 attacks=31.5Total damage over 20 rounds=140Over Five rounds avg=35Boy you turned coat real fast.Anyways- keep in mind the losses of stat boni in other areas. Basically one gains more stable combat performance at the expense of having those other bonuses. Trade one for the other. Kinda the point.More like shifting the power around, decreasing the emphasis on stat mods but rather moving more towards being able to survive more on par with a character that has nothing but class levels.Misinterpretation- not suggesting changing old Class HD into undead HD. Those get to be bumped to d12's as normal- what I mean is making sure to point out that the extra HD from the LA conversion are intended to add to BAB/saves/skills, even though special template text would lead one to believe otherwise.Again, not suggesting recalculating old HD when template LA is converted. So far it seems this system works best with base critters, not templates anyways. Then again, the template system is far from perfect, so that's not saying much.</blockquote>

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