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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hawken" data-source="post: 4861525" data-attributes="member: 23619">This is doing what I've suggested, just from the opposite direction (decreasing XP to delay level up where I increased XP required to level up). Why? Says who? What 'extra power'. We've already covered your half-ogre example and I'd take a 3rd level fighter over your 1hd half-ogre anytime--or a 3rd level rogue, or wizard, or ranger, or cleric, or monk.... You're inflating the 'advantages' of your half-ogre. And, at 10th, 15th and especially, 20th, those racial 'advantages' don't mean too much, if anything at all!No its not. His +6 to Str is mitigated by his -2 to Int and Cha, making it a net +4 bonus (since the DMG seems to think 2 pts of Str is worth 4 points from two other abilities). And the overall bonus to hit (+2 extra) is further mitigated by his -1 to hit because of his size, giving him a net bonus to attack equal to +1. That's not worth a level. And the extra 2 pts to damage from Str is easily the difference between a good damage die roll and a bad one. Hardly worth a level. And his net +3 natural armor. (+4 bonus, mitigated by his -1 to AC for size). Yeah, sure, its ok at lower levels but its basically the same difference as having a +1 shield, which half-ogres generally don't do so they can use two handed weapons and take advantage of their 'great' strength. At mid to high levels, this advantage can easily be duplicated by magic items and spells and even feats, plus it is a defense that is basically ignored by quite a few spells and powers (Ray of Enfeeblement, Eldritch Blast, etc.). Again, neat 'trick' but hardly worth a level or two. Darkvision? Who gives a flip? Spells can easily duplicate, magic items too, and it can be made permanent! Definitely not even worth half a level!Absolutely there is! For one thing, racial advantages do not scale with level while the power gained from level increases at an increasing rate (a level 10 wizard is better than a level 5 wizard/level 5 anything else). By 10th level or so, racial advantages are a convenience and nothing more. By 15th and on, they are very nearly irrelevant and for anyone with an LA greater than 0, they are a liability! Even the highest LA creature (lets say +5) at 15th level is not going to be able to stand with or against ANY level 20 character. An 18th level drow wizard (CR 20) is going to get his ass handed to him by a 20th level human wizard. The Drow's SR might give him a 50/50 defense from a Power Word Kill, but not whatever comes out of a Gate or Summon Monster IX spell (that he can do 2 more times than the Drow!).Your Half-Ogre 18th level fighter would get the same treatment from a human or dwarf 20th level fighter because they would have the extra feat(s), extra HD, and extra BAB (further reducing the effectiveness of the natural armor bonus of the Half-Ogre) which could be traded for damage via power attack (making them on par with the H-Os extra damage from Str), or AC (close to the same as the H-Os AC bonus). There's just no way you can say that LA is worth it. Not at low levels, not at mid and DEFINITELY not at high levels.What you say about Drow isn't right either. They do start off with a drawback, their light sensitivity. But their SR never becomes more important. It scales, meaning at 1st level, its the same benefit against 1st level casters that it is at 20th against 20th level casters. It never becomes more important, in fact, it becomes less important in the face of increasingly powerful spellcasters who have a greater variety of spells that can bypass or neutralize SR. Their SR only protects them against a very specific incident (spells cast at them in combat), it doesn't protect them from a rogue's sneak attack or a fighter's full round of attacks. +2 Int/Cha, so what? 1 extra skill point per level, maybe 1 extra spell or so, +1 DC to spell saves. That's not worth a level. And Cha is useless to a wizard and except for Clerics Turning/Rebuking and maybe one or two other things, Cha is useless to them too; +1 to their social skills that they don't have points to put ranks into. So what? Darkvision--see above. +2 to Will saves. Big deal. That's mitigated by Spell Focus and other spells/magic items. Minor spells? If a high level Drow has to use his innate spells, he's already got one foot in the grave!Actually, a 17th caster with GSP, needs only a 7 or higher on that check for their spell to get through--that's a 70% chance of success. Any Drow wizard that counts on 30% SR is going to die a fast death. Especially when a spell that can strip SR reduces that 30% to 10% or less! SR isn't even an asset in that situation--you definitely can't count on it and if you do, you're done (70% of the time). The 2 level difference you're poo-pooing, is a BIG difference. At low levels, its the difference between surviving a True Strike-Melf's Acid Arrow combination (no SR, no save, misses the Drow mage with 3hp on a 1) or snaring him in a Web (no SR) and then igniting the web for 2d4 damage by dropping your torch on it. At the upper end for casters, its difference is having 1 less 7th and 8th level, and two 9th level spells. BIG difference there!And for the non-casters, its a difference of a slew of skills, hp, bab, special abilities, etc. Major, major differences for convenient (at best, insignificant at worst) racial abilities.</blockquote>

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