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<blockquote data-quote="Janx" data-source="post: 5870314" data-attributes="member: 8835">Here's some general advice:when you use the word &quot;plot&quot; avoid interpretations of &quot;make the players do XYZ&quot;&nbsp; This can drive some players to rebelliousness, where if they fee like they're being forced to do something, they'll do everything in their power to stop it.Do set up plot hooks that present opportunities/problems that the players would be interested in.&nbsp; It sounds like you tried that with the &quot;cave of treasure&quot; for them.Danger levels: your players seem risk averse.&nbsp; This might be tied to a misunderstanding of the difficulty level of the encounters.&nbsp; Or they really are chickens who just want to bully low level monsters around.&nbsp; I think to handle the latter, some transparency in how you design encounters might help (that doesn't mean show them your notes).&nbsp; For your game system, learn how the party level/composition compares to varyling levels of Challenge Rating or Encounter Level and generally stick to a system where are chosen from a certain range, based on party level.In this way, monsters will be no toughter than X, which is known to be hard but not impossible to beat.&nbsp; At that point, players know that every encounter is beatable IF they use their brains.&nbsp; Rather than assuming every encounter is impossible and thus is to be avoided.This advice doesn't always apply, the party COULD go looking for trouble with a monster that is &quot;impossible&quot; to beat.&nbsp; That's their problem, especially if youve described how tough the monster is.&nbsp; The party could anger something that is MUCH more powerful and it decides to go after them.But for your planned content, having a range you work with helps maintain game balance for the party.Consequences:&nbsp; One way to reign in &quot;evil&quot; game play is to reward good deeds and punish bad ones.&nbsp; I don't mean sending out a grudge monster designed to kill them.&nbsp; But generally, the players should see negative reactions from NPCs, police out to get them, and more powerful enemies are looking for them.&nbsp; You might preamble their first &quot;not nice&quot; deed with an anonymous public demonstration.&nbsp; Show the reaction of the townspeople to their act, where the townspeople don't know the party did it.&nbsp; If the players see upset women crying over their lost men or some suffering because of a lost food shipment that they disturbed, they MIGHT see that their actions have consequences and be more careful.&nbsp; Or they'll take glee in it.&nbsp; In which case you've identified your sociopathic players.If you don't want to run an evil campaign, and have &quot;evil&quot; players, but you still want to game together, I recommend finding a way to steer clear of heroic plots that they will rebel against and &quot;evil&quot; opportunities that they will revel in while disgusting you.Dungeon crawling seems to be the solution for such social misfits.&nbsp; What happens in the dungeon tends to stay in the dungeon, the party comes out, sells their loot (and don't yank their chain on anything, lest they massacre your town).&nbsp; Then they go back in for more dungeon adventure.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Janx, post: 5870314, member: 8835"] Here's some general advice: when you use the word "plot" avoid interpretations of "make the players do XYZ" This can drive some players to rebelliousness, where if they fee like they're being forced to do something, they'll do everything in their power to stop it. Do set up plot hooks that present opportunities/problems that the players would be interested in. It sounds like you tried that with the "cave of treasure" for them. Danger levels: your players seem risk averse. This might be tied to a misunderstanding of the difficulty level of the encounters. Or they really are chickens who just want to bully low level monsters around. I think to handle the latter, some transparency in how you design encounters might help (that doesn't mean show them your notes). For your game system, learn how the party level/composition compares to varyling levels of Challenge Rating or Encounter Level and generally stick to a system where are chosen from a certain range, based on party level. In this way, monsters will be no toughter than X, which is known to be hard but not impossible to beat. At that point, players know that every encounter is beatable IF they use their brains. Rather than assuming every encounter is impossible and thus is to be avoided. This advice doesn't always apply, the party COULD go looking for trouble with a monster that is "impossible" to beat. That's their problem, especially if youve described how tough the monster is. The party could anger something that is MUCH more powerful and it decides to go after them. But for your planned content, having a range you work with helps maintain game balance for the party. Consequences: One way to reign in "evil" game play is to reward good deeds and punish bad ones. I don't mean sending out a grudge monster designed to kill them. But generally, the players should see negative reactions from NPCs, police out to get them, and more powerful enemies are looking for them. You might preamble their first "not nice" deed with an anonymous public demonstration. Show the reaction of the townspeople to their act, where the townspeople don't know the party did it. If the players see upset women crying over their lost men or some suffering because of a lost food shipment that they disturbed, they MIGHT see that their actions have consequences and be more careful. Or they'll take glee in it. In which case you've identified your sociopathic players. If you don't want to run an evil campaign, and have "evil" players, but you still want to game together, I recommend finding a way to steer clear of heroic plots that they will rebel against and "evil" opportunities that they will revel in while disgusting you. Dungeon crawling seems to be the solution for such social misfits. What happens in the dungeon tends to stay in the dungeon, the party comes out, sells their loot (and don't yank their chain on anything, lest they massacre your town). Then they go back in for more dungeon adventure. [/QUOTE]

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