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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
lack of non-combat crunch is my biggest gripe with 4e atm
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<blockquote data-quote="eamon" data-source="post: 4492337" data-attributes="member: 51942"><p>It's not just "crunch" - it's just the general lack of abilities which call out to be used creatively.</p><p></p><p>Scry-Teleport-Nuke make be boring, but there were much more such things which were fun to contemplate.</p><p></p><p>Have a familiar? It can talk, and you could convince it to spy on your enemies, or perhaps to steal a small item. A druid could become a dog to infiltrate a town. A simple net had a amusing combat potential, and a lot of low-level equipment was readily available and usable for interesting purposes.</p><p></p><p>And of course, spellcasters had untold versatility:</p><p>- speak with animals, detect poison, reduce person, tree shape, water breathing, transmute mud to rock and vice-versa, Tree Stride, Mark of Justice, Jump, Hide from (Animals, Undead, etc), Alarm, Message, Mending, Arcane Mark, Spider Climb, Detect Thoughts, Locate Object, Tenser's Floating Disk, Gentle Repose, Leomund's Tiny Hut, Sepia Snake Sigil, Arcane Eye, Illusory Wall...</p><p></p><p>The point isn't just that these things are useful or powerful, it's also that they can be inspirational tools, and character hooks. Stuff like speak with dead is just great for a plot hook. Maybe it's a bit cheap, but it both rewards the player's for thinking of it, and it allows a bit of spooky atmostphere and to inject information which might be otherwise difficult to pass along.</p><p></p><p>The point of these effects and abilities is also to serve as a certain magical baseline, if you will - effects which you can expect to see and use around the world. Rituals <em>could</em> be a part of this - but they're much and much and much too expensive, and in any case some variety between the classes would be nice. </p><p></p><p>How about the druid's pass without trace, or the bard's knowledge? How about Woodland Stride, Animal companions, and Wild empathy?</p><p></p><p>I think it's nice having some fluffy rules. 4e loses a bit of flavor for the lack.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="eamon, post: 4492337, member: 51942"] It's not just "crunch" - it's just the general lack of abilities which call out to be used creatively. Scry-Teleport-Nuke make be boring, but there were much more such things which were fun to contemplate. Have a familiar? It can talk, and you could convince it to spy on your enemies, or perhaps to steal a small item. A druid could become a dog to infiltrate a town. A simple net had a amusing combat potential, and a lot of low-level equipment was readily available and usable for interesting purposes. And of course, spellcasters had untold versatility: - speak with animals, detect poison, reduce person, tree shape, water breathing, transmute mud to rock and vice-versa, Tree Stride, Mark of Justice, Jump, Hide from (Animals, Undead, etc), Alarm, Message, Mending, Arcane Mark, Spider Climb, Detect Thoughts, Locate Object, Tenser's Floating Disk, Gentle Repose, Leomund's Tiny Hut, Sepia Snake Sigil, Arcane Eye, Illusory Wall... The point isn't just that these things are useful or powerful, it's also that they can be inspirational tools, and character hooks. Stuff like speak with dead is just great for a plot hook. Maybe it's a bit cheap, but it both rewards the player's for thinking of it, and it allows a bit of spooky atmostphere and to inject information which might be otherwise difficult to pass along. The point of these effects and abilities is also to serve as a certain magical baseline, if you will - effects which you can expect to see and use around the world. Rituals [i]could[/i] be a part of this - but they're much and much and much too expensive, and in any case some variety between the classes would be nice. How about the druid's pass without trace, or the bard's knowledge? How about Woodland Stride, Animal companions, and Wild empathy? I think it's nice having some fluffy rules. 4e loses a bit of flavor for the lack. [/QUOTE]
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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
lack of non-combat crunch is my biggest gripe with 4e atm
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