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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jester David" data-source="post: 7341361" data-attributes="member: 37579">Legendary actions =/= regular actions. They're purposely weaker. A monster might actully be stronger with a regular subclass, being able to nova with a Battle Master's maneuvers as it doesn't need to spread them out over an adventuring day. But that's far less fun for the player being nova-ed upon, doesn't give other characters an opportunity to react or mitigate the damage, and leaves the NPC vulnerable to being stunlocked. It's gamist but... this IS a game. The design should keep in mind what is most fun at the table. That's almost the most important thing. And Legendary Creatures are designed the way they are to be more fun at the table. To generate more fun encounters, where the monster is moving and attacking multiple people, and doing lots of different things. And is challenging the entire group. Anyhoo, MY POINT was that it could be a subclass if you worked hard enough. Which is exactly what they did in 3e to give NPC humanoids unique powers. It's very possible to generate dozens of NPC specific monster subclasses or prestige classes that are closely balanced with PC options, but designed with requirements that make them impossible to play as PCs (alignment restrictions, race restrictions, etc). But that's needless. It's a lot more work and design constraints for little gain. The result is the same: the monster does something unique and unexpected. But the DMs now have to make the monster from scratch rather than having it prepared, it's needlessly complex, it takes up extra space, and you need to figure out it's CR with a lot of moving parts. Why not just make it a straight monster?After all, chances are the PCs won't ever see that subclass. You don't want them to have seen it. (An NPC having unexpected powers is the point.) And including it in a book makes a trap PC option just causes problems, such as if a player sees the class but not the restrictions or a DM decides to lift the restrictions. Plus the design is show much harder as you're trying to design a fun monster ability while keep in balanced against existing PC abilities, which is needlessly constraining. So why not just give the monster the cool power. What's the exact challenge rating of a level 13 halfling rogue assassin? But even if you can pop out a level 15 dragonborn fighter NPC in a minute, that doesn't mean everyone can. That everyone should have to. Not really. Because several NPCs are already in the books. So it's just adding some extra hp and some extra actions on top. (You can almost do it at the table, giving them an extra attack, some movement, and maybe a cool move. You'd just have to figure out the CR after.)Making a bunch of new NPCs would be harder. But if someone else did it, such as publishing it on the DMsGuild or having it included in a book, then it's be much easier. Except for the 18HD archmage in the MM who has Magic Resistance, which PCs might not. The Cultists have a unique trait. The gladiator can Shield Bash and their weapons deal extra damage. The knight's Leadership ability is unlike any PC ability. The priest's Divine Eminence ability isn't like any cleric's power. The Tribal Warrior has pack tactics. Etc. Those are all already in the game.PCs can take off-turn actions. They're called Reactions. There's a lot of them. The difference is a Legendary Creature gets a couple more. Which seems big, but isn't really. A PC getting legendary actions would find themselves taking fewer and fewer as the fights go on, and might not be able to use them all in many fights with fewer numbers of opponents. Regardless, the reason for limiting off-turn actions isn't because it's outside of the realm of possibility or the narrative but because it slows down gameplay to give players multiple things they can do off turn. The design is limited by what works most at the table. Why should monster design be limited by the meta-game reasons of not letting players hog the spotlight?Not every "fan of 3e" liked everything about 3e. That's why 4e and 5e were designed like they are. (I'm a huge 3e/ Pathfinder fan, and I don't like monster symmetry. Running a Dragonlance campaign where all the major antagonists were class humanoids made me want to scream.) Also... this isn't 3e. It needs to do what fans of 5e want and are going to buy into. That's an unrelated discussion point. Yeah, if a monster needs an ability like a PC ability it should work like that PC ability. But we're talking about stuff PCs can't do not based on existing PC powers.</blockquote>

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