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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Large Races?
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<blockquote data-quote="Badwe" data-source="post: 5090301" data-attributes="member: 61762"><p>there are at least a few examples of players legally bumping their die size. There is at least one epic destiny and i believe a paragon path that offer this benefit. This should give you a rough guideline of the relative power of having larger weapons, and how to balance it.</p><p></p><p>I think everyone has sufficiently pointed out some of the inherent benefits of being large. part of the problem is also the nature of size and races in 4e. in 4e, your race is "all upside", there's no penalty to stats, no additional weaknesses, only strengths. In 3.x, growing in size would intrinsically hurt your AC (you're easier to hit), although being small also helped your AC (which it no longer does).</p><p></p><p>If you took flanking to be equal balance... that leaves bursts, weapon size, squeezing, and reach/threat. I think you can balance at least some of this out with feats. Someone else alluded to how in other sourcebooks you would level up a "racial class" that had, as one of its "class features" being large. Perhaps start off medium, and then make the large size a feat, maybe even a multiclass feat to help curb broken combos. You might even limit it to non-hybrids for good measure. It might also be fair for reach to be a feat, and it likely should not stack with reach weapons (you don't want a level 1 character to have reach 3 with a polearm), at least until paragon tier, or possibly via another feat (again, perhaps available in paragon tier). By now it should be clear that just about any of the discrepancies between medium and large could start "turned off" until a feat enabled it. With a little tweaking you could figure out which feats were strong and which were weak, perhaps combining the feats.</p><p></p><p>If you're willing to break the 4e mold of races being "all upside" you might be willing to impose a penalty for being large. For example, if the large creature is hit by a single burst/blast attack in more than 1 of it's squares, apply a -1 to the targeted defense, or a -2 if all 4 of the PC's squares are covered in a single blast. This doesn't address cover, but it's hard to say there could be a clean resolution to that.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Badwe, post: 5090301, member: 61762"] there are at least a few examples of players legally bumping their die size. There is at least one epic destiny and i believe a paragon path that offer this benefit. This should give you a rough guideline of the relative power of having larger weapons, and how to balance it. I think everyone has sufficiently pointed out some of the inherent benefits of being large. part of the problem is also the nature of size and races in 4e. in 4e, your race is "all upside", there's no penalty to stats, no additional weaknesses, only strengths. In 3.x, growing in size would intrinsically hurt your AC (you're easier to hit), although being small also helped your AC (which it no longer does). If you took flanking to be equal balance... that leaves bursts, weapon size, squeezing, and reach/threat. I think you can balance at least some of this out with feats. Someone else alluded to how in other sourcebooks you would level up a "racial class" that had, as one of its "class features" being large. Perhaps start off medium, and then make the large size a feat, maybe even a multiclass feat to help curb broken combos. You might even limit it to non-hybrids for good measure. It might also be fair for reach to be a feat, and it likely should not stack with reach weapons (you don't want a level 1 character to have reach 3 with a polearm), at least until paragon tier, or possibly via another feat (again, perhaps available in paragon tier). By now it should be clear that just about any of the discrepancies between medium and large could start "turned off" until a feat enabled it. With a little tweaking you could figure out which feats were strong and which were weak, perhaps combining the feats. If you're willing to break the 4e mold of races being "all upside" you might be willing to impose a penalty for being large. For example, if the large creature is hit by a single burst/blast attack in more than 1 of it's squares, apply a -1 to the targeted defense, or a -2 if all 4 of the PC's squares are covered in a single blast. This doesn't address cover, but it's hard to say there could be a clean resolution to that. [/QUOTE]
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