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last encounter was totally one-sided
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<blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 6964940" data-attributes="member: 6785785"><p>I honestly wonder when some folks will start to question their players' role in all this. </p><p></p><p>It sounds to me like instances of players who are actively trying to "win" the game by creating the character builds with the most damage output and not much else, hence the multiclassing simply to grab class abilities at low levels, and combining that with feats to create maximum power combos, and then also optimizing across the party so that their group is simply an effective killing force. </p><p></p><p>I don't typically think there's anything wrong with players optimizing to some extent. But when that's all that they do, maybe that's a problem. </p><p></p><p>Maybe the game just isn't as rewarding when that's all the players care about. Clearly, that seems to be the case.</p><p></p><p>My group and I went through this phase to a lesser extent. We had a discussion about it....we talked about how ludicrous it was from the fictional standpoint, and also the impact it had on the game and everyone's enjoyment of it. We agreed that it was ultimately a negative impact...it was the equivalent of setting the difficulty to "Easy". If the campaign was a story, it would be the most boring one they'd ever read...the characters just waltzing through every danger, and not even acknowledging anything as a viable threat. Hordes of enemies are not a threat? Something is wrong. </p><p></p><p>I would think that abandoning a game wouldn't really solve the problem, since any game will face this problem at some point. It's just a matter of time until the players get familiar enough with the system mechanics to come up with these "game-breaking" combinations. I think the only thing to do is adjust the players' view of the game, and the point of it all, and then change how I ran the game to reinforce a view that would be more rewarding. </p><p></p><p>Remove some of the options that they rely on in order to maximize their characters....feats and multi-classing being removed and see how good they are as actual players who need to think instead of simply switching their kill button to "ON" and then slaughtering everything in sight. Put them up against enemies that they CANNOT defeat physically. I mean don't even create stats for the thing....make them come up with another solution than killing. Maybe try some pregenerated characters that have goals and motives beyond simply killing everything, and maybe have abilities that are focused on areas other than combat (gasp!!). Maybe come up with encounters that challenge the characters outside of combat. I mean, the way some of these games are described, I would say that drastic measures are in order....I can't see how they are fun for the DM, and how they'd be fun for the players for very long. </p><p> [MENTION=6855114]Helldritch[/MENTION] listed a bunch of options that were more mechanically based....more functions of the game. If those options don't fix the problem, then I think the problem is actually far deeper than the game system. I think adjustments in play style and DM style are in order.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="hawkeyefan, post: 6964940, member: 6785785"] I honestly wonder when some folks will start to question their players' role in all this. It sounds to me like instances of players who are actively trying to "win" the game by creating the character builds with the most damage output and not much else, hence the multiclassing simply to grab class abilities at low levels, and combining that with feats to create maximum power combos, and then also optimizing across the party so that their group is simply an effective killing force. I don't typically think there's anything wrong with players optimizing to some extent. But when that's all that they do, maybe that's a problem. Maybe the game just isn't as rewarding when that's all the players care about. Clearly, that seems to be the case. My group and I went through this phase to a lesser extent. We had a discussion about it....we talked about how ludicrous it was from the fictional standpoint, and also the impact it had on the game and everyone's enjoyment of it. We agreed that it was ultimately a negative impact...it was the equivalent of setting the difficulty to "Easy". If the campaign was a story, it would be the most boring one they'd ever read...the characters just waltzing through every danger, and not even acknowledging anything as a viable threat. Hordes of enemies are not a threat? Something is wrong. I would think that abandoning a game wouldn't really solve the problem, since any game will face this problem at some point. It's just a matter of time until the players get familiar enough with the system mechanics to come up with these "game-breaking" combinations. I think the only thing to do is adjust the players' view of the game, and the point of it all, and then change how I ran the game to reinforce a view that would be more rewarding. Remove some of the options that they rely on in order to maximize their characters....feats and multi-classing being removed and see how good they are as actual players who need to think instead of simply switching their kill button to "ON" and then slaughtering everything in sight. Put them up against enemies that they CANNOT defeat physically. I mean don't even create stats for the thing....make them come up with another solution than killing. Maybe try some pregenerated characters that have goals and motives beyond simply killing everything, and maybe have abilities that are focused on areas other than combat (gasp!!). Maybe come up with encounters that challenge the characters outside of combat. I mean, the way some of these games are described, I would say that drastic measures are in order....I can't see how they are fun for the DM, and how they'd be fun for the players for very long. [MENTION=6855114]Helldritch[/MENTION] listed a bunch of options that were more mechanically based....more functions of the game. If those options don't fix the problem, then I think the problem is actually far deeper than the game system. I think adjustments in play style and DM style are in order. [/QUOTE]
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