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<blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 6965542" data-attributes="member: 5834"><p>Once again putting words in that I didn't say. They most certainly wouldn't say, "Charge." They would scout it, say 300 orc horde with a leader, probably port or transport in, take out the leaders, and nuke a major portion of the central command, adios out, piecemeal the rest of the orcs. Tactically, a group of level 15 characters with a mix of magic and martial might have a lot of power at their beck and call. They wouldn't have much fear of an orc warband. By 15th level they've fought dragons, demons, giants, and far worse than a group of 300 orcs. It's not going to scare them and it shouldn't. At that level the wizards are accessing magic that allows them to traverse the world fairly quickly, druids are turning into elementals and summoning animal hordes, fighters can take fire breath weapons full force and smile, paladins are immune to most anything and have insane saves, rogues can hide where no orc would have a shot at seeing them nearly any round, and clerics can heal a lot of damage as well as wade into the middle of an orc horde where any orc coming near them is likely do die in a single round. Can you imagine a level 15 war cleric wading into an orc horde with a higher level <em>spirtual guardians</em> going in plate armor buffed up doing not much but using the dodge action. Orcs dying every round by the dozen.</p><p></p><p>I don't know if you've played a level 15 character or run them, they are damn powerful. Not just damage output, but overall party capabilities. If the orc horde is smart, they wouldn't even try to take on a group of level 15 characters. If they knew whatever city or village they planned to attack had a group of lvl 15 characters protecting it, they would go elsewhere.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You think 6 characters that are in essence the most powerful warriors, archers, warlocks, wizards, sorcerers, rogues, and so on in an epic fantasy world with dragons, giants, demons, and the like should fear 300 humanoid orcs? If the orcs are every bit as capable as the PCs, that game world is extremely skewed. I like the players to feel powerful. They should reach a point where anything less than a legendary orc horde the size of The Mongols will not cause them trouble. A small 300 orc horde should be something a level 15 character deals with fairly easy. By that level they should be venturing onto other planes or dealing with world or realm shattering threats.</p><p></p><p>If you make them 300 legendary level 15 warrior orc heroes resurrected from some ancient orc graveyard by a powerful orc necromancer intent on taking on the world, then cool. Those 300 orcs should be real scary.</p><p></p><p>My assumption is we're talking standard 300 orc horde with a mix of clerics, warleaders, and the like. I think taking care of that is not what you're calling on level 15 heroes for. They're taking on far more potent enemies by that time. No one is saying you can't make 300 orcs a challenge, but I am saying that a fairly standard 300 orc horde should not be much of an issue for level 15 characters.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celtavian, post: 6965542, member: 5834"] Once again putting words in that I didn't say. They most certainly wouldn't say, "Charge." They would scout it, say 300 orc horde with a leader, probably port or transport in, take out the leaders, and nuke a major portion of the central command, adios out, piecemeal the rest of the orcs. Tactically, a group of level 15 characters with a mix of magic and martial might have a lot of power at their beck and call. They wouldn't have much fear of an orc warband. By 15th level they've fought dragons, demons, giants, and far worse than a group of 300 orcs. It's not going to scare them and it shouldn't. At that level the wizards are accessing magic that allows them to traverse the world fairly quickly, druids are turning into elementals and summoning animal hordes, fighters can take fire breath weapons full force and smile, paladins are immune to most anything and have insane saves, rogues can hide where no orc would have a shot at seeing them nearly any round, and clerics can heal a lot of damage as well as wade into the middle of an orc horde where any orc coming near them is likely do die in a single round. Can you imagine a level 15 war cleric wading into an orc horde with a higher level [i]spirtual guardians[/i] going in plate armor buffed up doing not much but using the dodge action. Orcs dying every round by the dozen. I don't know if you've played a level 15 character or run them, they are damn powerful. Not just damage output, but overall party capabilities. If the orc horde is smart, they wouldn't even try to take on a group of level 15 characters. If they knew whatever city or village they planned to attack had a group of lvl 15 characters protecting it, they would go elsewhere. You think 6 characters that are in essence the most powerful warriors, archers, warlocks, wizards, sorcerers, rogues, and so on in an epic fantasy world with dragons, giants, demons, and the like should fear 300 humanoid orcs? If the orcs are every bit as capable as the PCs, that game world is extremely skewed. I like the players to feel powerful. They should reach a point where anything less than a legendary orc horde the size of The Mongols will not cause them trouble. A small 300 orc horde should be something a level 15 character deals with fairly easy. By that level they should be venturing onto other planes or dealing with world or realm shattering threats. If you make them 300 legendary level 15 warrior orc heroes resurrected from some ancient orc graveyard by a powerful orc necromancer intent on taking on the world, then cool. Those 300 orcs should be real scary. My assumption is we're talking standard 300 orc horde with a mix of clerics, warleaders, and the like. I think taking care of that is not what you're calling on level 15 heroes for. They're taking on far more potent enemies by that time. No one is saying you can't make 300 orcs a challenge, but I am saying that a fairly standard 300 orc horde should not be much of an issue for level 15 characters. [/QUOTE]
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