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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 6967532" data-attributes="member: 5834">Perhaps it will improve, but I doubt it. The same math that makes PCs weak also makes monsters weak. As some others have shown, a 5E ancient dragon can be killed by a 100 lvl 1 fighter archers. Normally a 10,000 orc army runs from an ancient dragon. In 5E, an ancient dragon or a balor would be handily killed by a 10,000 orc army. It wouldn't even be a contest as the dragon or balor would eventually succumb to bowfire even with range and disadvantage. In fact, an orc army firing bows might kill it in one round or the game time equivalent of six seconds due to the same math that makes higher level PCs vulnerable to low monsters. Yet even in a fairly gritty setting like LotR, Smaug the Golden destroyed a dwarf city and the entire dwarf army defending it alone. This is not possible in 5E using 5E math as written. You would have to modify Smaug greatly for this to occur.Yet this was possible in 3E just as a 3E high level character defeating a 10,000 orc army was possible. So each edition has a different feel. Maybe 3E had a wider ability to simulate different play-styles better. You could go gritty in 3E and simulate the surrounded by orc army feel. Or you could go epic and simulate the invincible dragon. In 5E there really is no invincible dragon unless you make it yourself and specifically make it to be immune to the attacks of a vast number of creatures using normal attacks. At the same time you don't want to put it out the range of a party to kill. You have to play with the math and game mechanics to capture it. It seems simplicity and bounded accuracy came with a cost that makes for a game with mechanical limitations that don't simulate as wide a range of fantasy archetypes as 3E. That being said, the 3E bloat is still far too great to make me want to go back. I figure I'll eventually figure out how to mathematically build a creature that does what I want it do. The nice thing about 5E is it is very easy to modify.</blockquote>

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